438 replies to this topic

[MagentaDrake]

This is true. This is why Satam is so awesome. The character's matured and didn't back track like so many other media... even within the Sonic universe. 

[RedAuthar]

1) She doesn't like the rules/traditions of who she can and can not marry.
2) She's pointed out that her council was much more effective than the lone king.
3) She pointed out to the Council of Acorn that she isn't going to wait for them to deliberate when action is needed. 
 
All of those are from the comics, which I don't consider the definitive source for analyzing characterization, but I'll bite. The first two concern reform, not adventure. The third involves her taking action when circumstances demand it, something that is very much in character but is different from my point. She's taking action out of necessity, not because she enjoys it.
 
She may want a more boring life, but not necessarily the one she's supposedly going get.
 
What her future would actually be like is another subject entirely. I was contesting the beliefs stated by several posters that her enjoying a 'boring' life of peace would be out of character.

. And was expanding on these thoughts, not necessarily disagreeing with you.

[E122Psi]

This is true. This is why Satam is so awesome. The character's matured and didn't back track like so many other media... even within the Sonic universe. 

Well there was some evident Flanderization here and there, especially for Antoine (though Archie Antoine is an example of why I don't like maturing characters).

 

 

 I don't see the comics as very accurate depiction her or the potential world-building. The Acorn Council was a joke, and was massivly oversimplified. That was not a republic it was bickering oligarchy of weak-minded egotists and mushbrains. 

 

They seemed to exist mostly as strawmen for the Freedom Fighters, trying to give the implication other fields worked into protecting Mobotropolis but then devolving them into pompous imbeciles when they realized the Freedom Fighters' characterizations didn't really work co operating with other background teams in such a manner (as Sonic pointed out, people don't tell him what to do, which negates the idea of having another power he'd have to compromise with).

 

I have to kinda agree with your theory on stagnating characters, this is why I'm so friggin' bored of the Archie characterizations, which rely largely on angst and exposition to set up character development.

[MagentaDrake]

Then we will have to agree to disagree. Because if characters don't mature I feel they lose my interest. It sucks when they mature in stupid ways but at least they're not stagnate. 

[E122Psi]

Then we will have to agree to disagree. Because if characters don't mature I feel they lose my interest. It sucks when they mature in stupid ways but at least they're not stagnate. 

I think it's more a case of compromise and making the characters develop in a way that broadens their personality rather than dilutes it. I don't like the process of 'developing' a character which involves taking away all their flaws to the point they have the demeanor of a boring old sage. There are much more efficient and effective ways of showing a character develop while still keeping them vibrant and reasonably flawed (and thus entertaining) characters. Hell in some cases you can even add on character traits rather than taking them away.

 

Granted I feel Archie's problem is as much it doesn't really see the importance of character 'quirks' and rarely do the eccentricities or traits of an individual cast member really drive the plot much outside of silly comic relief. I think this is a really misguided direction for developing a character since characters that act 'cartoony' and quirky at times are hardly undeveloped. This is largely a reason I feel Archie Sally is so bland, even within Ian's rather vehement attempts to make her look 'flawed'. People tend to forget that despite it's occasional dramatic development, the Satam cast still had defining whimsical qualities.

[MagentaDrake]

I do not mean mature as in become sagely. I mean when they learn a lesson they remember it. It actually changes them.

[E122Psi]

I do not mean mature as in become sagely. I mean when they learn a lesson they remember it. It actually changes them.

That I can side with, avoid Aesop Amnesia yes (though maybe still add in the slight insinuation old habits die hard on spaced occasions).

 

I will give credit that, while I think they overdid Sonic's Idiot Ball moments in Season Two (and didn't really focus on anyone else's) they at least had the right idea of placing most of them in the first half of the season, with him still cocky and arrogant at the later half but having some greater sense of tact and self control. I feel that's a bigger reason it was a shame Sally had no similar moments of humility at around the same time, it would have really given the clear indication of the two learning to compromise their opposing strategies and use them in unity rather than bickering with each other, as demonstrated in Cry of the Wolf and The Doomsday Project. It felt kinda like she missed a pivot in her character development that could have made a big effect on her depiction. Sonic was the one doing all the learning.

 

Antoine did admittedly get a few very vague redeeming moments near the end of it too (eg. Spyhog, in fact with more emphasis on Bunnie and Rotor, that episode as a whole felt more an attempt to even out the whole cast, thus maybe a sign Hurst would have balanced things better had the show gone a bit longer).

[RedAuthar]

On the Subject of Character Shipping, I see a lot of Tails x NICOLE lately.  Anyone know more about this/have opinions on this?  I don't really know where it came from other than NICOLE's Lynx form existing. 

[TheRedStranger]

A bit out of her "age" range, right?

 

 Well, I don't like the idea of the superdy-duper nanites that can make anything for one thing. I find it to be a nasty ad-hoc plot device, the deus ex machina of resources. There is much more potential for conflict and plots lines killed out by this... Fighting for needed resources is important part of fighting for a cuase. And when you add this absurd plot-device in the mix it lessons the tension drastically. I would rather see Nicole have a real body or something short of a cylon.

 

I think Ian realized this mistake before he made Iron Dominian Arc...

[RedAuthar]

Yeah I don't like the concept of the nanites solving everything.

However machines with souls always been a concept that fascinates me. I like the concept of Nicole trying to get a body and become more mobian

[Uncle Ben]

Its... interesting to say the least.

 

Uncle Ben has no strong opinion on it as of this point

[TheRedStranger]

Yeah I don't like the concept of the nanites solving everything.

However machines with souls always been a concept that fascinates me. I like the concept of Nicole trying to get a body and become more mobian

 

 Accio Magic Plot Device.

 

I hate it when sci-fi tech can do anything and everything. It smacks of a glittery and delusional modernistic thinking that convinetly forgets events like the Cold War, Hiroshima, Media Oversaturation, or the Blitz.  I will always display technology as damaging as well a helping us, as a complex and ambigious plot device. Like scapel all technology can be used to harm or to heal. The choice is in the user, but even when he has choosen wisely he should prepare for...unforseen consquences. 

 

You'll love her arc in EoT then. A.I doesn't exsist in this take of the continuity. I use a fresher concept. But I've so far planned pair Nicole with

Spoiler

Like I'm gonna tell

[ILOVEVHS]

Meh. The only real thing I've seen of it was an average fanfic.

[MagentaDrake]

I dunno. They paired Tails with Mina, I can't see how they make any more sense then with NICOLE. Don't get me wrong, I LIKE Mina and I LIKE Tails. I just don't ship them... together. 

[Prince ByTor]

 

Almost perfect picture for the season.

[MagentaDrake]

I do like that picture.

[Uncle Ben]

 

Almost perfect picture for the season.

 

UNCLE BEN APPROVES 110%

[RedAuthar]

He's lying to you.  Uncle Ben never approves anything. 

[Uncle Ben]

He's lying to you.  Uncle Ben never approves anything. 

 

Bullshit yes i do