438 replies to this topic

[TheRedStranger]

 

 

It's not about the fight ever . That's writing 101 guys... It's what there fighting for. Who there fighting for.

I disagree and agree.  Yes the "what they're fighting" for is always the story, but the "who" is not.  I've read some pretty good books that the romance is hardly part of the story at all.  Romance is a way to develop a character, but not the story itself.  Unless you're writing a Romance story, the romance should serve to help a character learn and grow and shouldn't be focused on any more than needed. 

 

 

  There is always a who...it's sometimes just not yet seen. You can't have that who if you fail. And then there is your other relations. Look at Ms. Briggsby in the Secret of Nhim. 

[RedAuthar]

Then I give the Challenge of Finding the "who" in the book Wolverine Weapon X.  Not a single person in the book is fighting for someone other than themselves, not Logan, Not Cornelius, and definitely not the Professor. 

[TheRedStranger]

Then I give the Challenge of Finding the "who" in the book Wolverine Weapon X.  Not a single person in the book is fighting for someone other than themselves, not Logan, Not Cornelius, and definitely not the Professor. 

 

 Professor X cares about millions of people. He fights for the rights of an entire people group, Fredrick Douglas style. Like I said there are other relationships to glorify other than romance. And it's like Godwin's law, eventually romance will come up if a series progresses. And it's ussually a sign of a sucessful series if it has reached that stage.

 

 And there is a "who" out there, even if that person not yet in the narrative. Unless of course we are talking about the amazing adventures of a protazoa. :/ 

[Prince ByTor]

I believe castrating the characters castrates the story. Relationships reveal the truest depths of a character and what they are willing to fight, stand for, and change for. If you take their ability to love each other, you take away one of the soul sources of drama and character progression. It's not about the fight ever . That's writing 101 guys... It's what there fighting for. Who there fighting for.

 

 Honestly, as a writer. I go with this stance: let the character’s make the decision and back off.

 

 Once you create a character they obtain a life of their own on the pages, they build a dramatic throughline and a momentum of personality that makes them their own. Trust me, when you get about 365 pages into a work (Ever done this before? I have quite a bit. So trust me on this.) Character's are now making their own decisions. By then you are a dramatic stenographer (if you've done it right; if not, you probably wouldn't have made it this far anyways). I support Sonsal because I support Sonic as a character. Everything else is incredibly contrived, forcing Sonic into a mold that breaks the limbs and bones of his personality into a mangled heap. Force your egocentrisms on a character and that character dies - and it just becomes a pathetic self-insert fan-fic, your mere wish-fulfillment wondering around in the hollowed skin of what use to be the character like some wicked wendigo. Then by proxy all the characters just becomes a slave to your own solipsism. That is why fan-fics are infamous as they are, because they are net-publicized self-absorption. That is also why I have disdain for Sonamy; it spits on Sonic's face as a free and independent character that doesn't want to be tied down to a codependent stalker-girl. Yet, Sally and Sonic were written to complement each other and better each other as unique characters. I would rather see them together, than have my own immature fantasy's tickled. Young, I learned some things from Sonic and Sal about being in a relationship, how it can be rocky and their can be friction when two forces meet - but in the end they support each other and edify each other, and - um - refresh each other . That, is what relationships are about. They force you to grow beyond yourself and care for others. If we support people creating mindless simulacrums in a plodding plot you kill the characters as people in the story and are left with glorified play to some form of twisted fun house mirror-image of narcissistic love and, ick, glorified highly idiosyncratic autoerotism. And that just doesn't hamper characters, it ultimately hurts the readers. Most of the people I have ever met that were in to shipping actually were horribly selfish partners in real life. When it comes to examples, I have to keep them private. They have that much gravity, and it would be wrong of me to the gory and gossipy details. Let's just say it’s abusively selfish. I guess it's like psychopaths that start out young abusing animals, first you start with your fictions then you upgrade to selfishly manipulating people in reality.  Shipping can easily become some form relational sociopathy, especially when the person engaged in the shipping has never been in a real relationship and is just developing a desire to be with others. Also note that most Sonamy fans, slaves to the first relationship they see, reflect her character. Poor doating girls are gonna let a man walk all over them someday.

 

 By the way, I hate shipping in general for this. And I find the people behind the digital veil as... upsetting. The only relationship I have ever been vocal in supporting about is Sal's and Sonics because it has potential to show people what a relationship is really like. In sense you ca call it anti-shipping.

 

I agree, I've already written a book that's 150,000 words long and am in the midst of a second one; when writing for a character I have to become that character and respond to situations as such. Although I have nightmares, not real ones mind you, about the characters escaping the pages and giving me hell over what I did to them in the story.

As far as what is called "shipping" goes, in most cases I look at it as more or less soft pornography even if there is nothing sexual in it. It is someone's idealized relationship that, like pornography, does not have any basis in reality. For instance, we were talking about Sonic and Bunny getting together. Now, you could just start it out with them getting together, wham, bam, thank you ma'am and bob's your uncle, but just like a porn plot line everyone could see gaping plot holes and knows that their relationship could not happen in such a manner. To be real about it, it would have to take a very intricate story in which many obstacles were gently moved aside before it can happen.

 

 

Also, no one mentally and morally sane would sodomize a guy with quills that could cut steel. Just sayin'.  Actually I think anybody that engages in that act is going to have...a crappy day.

You know some people might be into that kind of thing....

[Uncle Ben]

 

It's not about the fight ever . That's writing 101 guys...

 

I presume Ian Flynn slept through that class.

 

 

Naw he went to the Deus Ex Macina class instead

[TheRedStranger]

 

I believe castrating the characters castrates the story. Relationships reveal the truest depths of a character and what they are willing to fight, stand for, and change for. If you take their ability to love each other, you take away one of the soul sources of drama and character progression. It's not about the fight ever . That's writing 101 guys... It's what there fighting for. Who there fighting for.

 

 Honestly, as a writer. I go with this stance: let the character’s make the decision and back off.

 

 Once you create a character they obtain a life of their own on the pages, they build a dramatic throughline and a momentum of personality that makes them their own. Trust me, when you get about 365 pages into a work (Ever done this before? I have quite a bit. So trust me on this.) Character's are now making their own decisions. By then you are a dramatic stenographer (if you've done it right; if not, you probably wouldn't have made it this far anyways). I support Sonsal because I support Sonic as a character. Everything else is incredibly contrived, forcing Sonic into a mold that breaks the limbs and bones of his personality into a mangled heap. Force your egocentrisms on a character and that character dies - and it just becomes a pathetic self-insert fan-fic, your mere wish-fulfillment wondering around in the hollowed skin of what use to be the character like some wicked wendigo. Then by proxy all the characters just becomes a slave to your own solipsism. That is why fan-fics are infamous as they are, because they are net-publicized self-absorption. That is also why I have disdain for Sonamy; it spits on Sonic's face as a free and independent character that doesn't want to be tied down to a codependent stalker-girl. Yet, Sally and Sonic were written to complement each other and better each other as unique characters. I would rather see them together, than have my own immature fantasy's tickled. Young, I learned some things from Sonic and Sal about being in a relationship, how it can be rocky and their can be friction when two forces meet - but in the end they support each other and edify each other, and - um - refresh each other . That, is what relationships are about. They force you to grow beyond yourself and care for others. If we support people creating mindless simulacrums in a plodding plot you kill the characters as people in the story and are left with glorified play to some form of twisted fun house mirror-image of narcissistic love and, ick, glorified highly idiosyncratic autoerotism. And that just doesn't hamper characters, it ultimately hurts the readers. Most of the people I have ever met that were in to shipping actually were horribly selfish partners in real life. When it comes to examples, I have to keep them private. They have that much gravity, and it would be wrong of me to the gory and gossipy details. Let's just say it’s abusively selfish. I guess it's like psychopaths that start out young abusing animals, first you start with your fictions then you upgrade to selfishly manipulating people in reality.  Shipping can easily become some form relational sociopathy, especially when the person engaged in the shipping has never been in a real relationship and is just developing a desire to be with others. Also note that most Sonamy fans, slaves to the first relationship they see, reflect her character. Poor doating girls are gonna let a man walk all over them someday.

 

 By the way, I hate shipping in general for this. And I find the people behind the digital veil as... upsetting. The only relationship I have ever been vocal in supporting about is Sal's and Sonics because it has potential to show people what a relationship is really like. In sense you ca call it anti-shipping.

 

I agree, I've already written a book that's 150,000 words long and am in the midst of a second one; when writing for a character I have to become that character and respond to situations as such. Although I have nightmares, not real ones mind you, about the characters escaping the pages and giving me hell over what I did to them in the story.

As far as what is called "shipping" goes, in most cases I look at it as more or less soft pornography even if there is nothing sexual in it. It is someone's idealized relationship that, like pornography, does not have any basis in reality. For instance, we were talking about Sonic and Bunny getting together. Now, you could just start it out with them getting together, wham, bam, thank you ma'am and bob's your uncle, but just like a porn plot line everyone could see gaping plot holes and knows that their relationship could not happen in such a manner. To be real about it, it would have to take a very intricate story in which many obstacles were gently moved aside before it can happen.

 

 

Also, no one mentally and morally sane would sodomize a guy with quills that could cut steel. Just sayin'.  Actually I think anybody that engages in that act is going to have...a crappy day.

You know some people might be into that kind of thing....

 

 

Indeed, and like porn it rots your brain to real intamcy. An inane ego-dream that rips through your nuerology like a scapel.

 

I'm with you, I want realtionships to be portrayed with realism, and if you are not going to put the effort into showing that and making it edfying to your audience...don't. I'll be honest in saying that like the idea of Sonbunnie as counterpoint to Sonsal to show off the dynamics relationships have. But at the end of the day Sonsal  just seems the more wholistic choice for the narrative. 

 

 "Into it" was the wrong choice of words. 

[Prince ByTor]

 

 

It's not about the fight ever . That's writing 101 guys...

 

I presume Ian Flynn slept through that class.

 

 

Naw he went to the Deus Ex Macina class instead

 

[Uncle Ben]

 

 

 

It's not about the fight ever . That's writing 101 guys...

 

I presume Ian Flynn slept through that class.

 

 

Naw he went to the Deus Ex Macina class instead

 

 

 

[TheRedStranger]

 

 

 

 

It's not about the fight ever . That's writing 101 guys...

 

I presume Ian Flynn slept through that class.

 

 

Naw he went to the Deus Ex Macina class instead

 

 

 

 

 

. I despise the Deus ex Machina worse than wierd shipping. It just breaks everything, darkness induced apathy's evil sacchanrine twin. Total sign you wrote yourself in the corner. 

 

 Note it can be subtle too. There is a horrible two in Phantom Menace that bring in plot-holes galore. A cookie to those who can find them.

[E122Psi]

I support Sonsal because I support Sonic as a character. Everything else is incredibly contrived, forcing Sonic into a mold that breaks the limbs and bones of his personality into a mangled heap. Force your egocentrisms on a character and that character dies - and it just becomes a pathetic self-insert fan-fic, your mere wish-fulfillment wondering around in the hollowed skin of what use to be the character like some wicked wendigo. Then by proxy all the characters just becomes a slave to your own solipsism. That is why fan-fics are infamous as they are, because they are net-publicized self-absorption. That is also why I have disdain for Sonamy; it spits on Sonic's face as a free and independent character that doesn't want to be tied down to a codependent stalker-girl. Yet, Sally and Sonic were written to complement each other and better each other as unique characters. 

See I'm not really sure I can agree with that, since the key reason I can't quite side with SonSal is how often Sally is written to 'castrate' Sonic's defining characteristics. As mentioned before she is written as his complete opposite, her way of doing things opposes almost everything that defines him. This has the capacity to work if they were equals and had an even amount of moments they learnt from the other and gained the ability to compromise their own ethics while still showing the strengths of them, but all to often Sally is just written as a 'Women Are Wiser' archetype who always has the better approach and tends to be depicted as a smarter, rational and all around 'better' person than Sonic.

 

I tend to find a lot of Sonic's redeeming aspects tend to get compromised as a result of Sally's necessity to be the moral superior. His whole spontaneous outlook is written more consistently to be reckless and incompetent whenever he specifically butts heads with her. His 'like the wind' imagery is also compromised so he requires Sally's emotional support more. He can't be even tempered as a redeeming aspects since that defies Sally being more rational than him. He can't be positive minded and determined as one either because that gets rid of opportunities for Sally to be a supporting shoulder. They try to give Sally token 'Not So Above It All' moments, but they aren't really consistent or well defined in terms of both developing Sally's proper flaws and complimenting Sonic and his ability to foil her back in a positive way, and seem to only exist to make this treatment look more subtle and avoid Sally hitting 'Mary Sue' territory since she's designed more consistently around her positive traits.

 

We've already been through his treatment in the future arcs, where Sally's has indeed gone full circle in 'castrating' Sonic and making him her king and tied down with her politics and approach, which is pretty much the TOTAL opposite of everything that defines Sonic's character.

 

SonAmy is one note and has little substance, but it is for that reason it seems more harmless, especially since Amy seems far less likely to try to keep Sonic in one place like Sally does. She seems to respect adventure and his approach, she's just kinda an attention whore who wants to be some part of it. At the very least I tend to find myself liking more interpretations of Sonic with Amy as a foil than Sally since his ability to convey both consistent positive and negative aspects on an equal basis is compromised far less (though there are exceptions).

[TheRedStranger]

 

I support Sonsal because I support Sonic as a character. Everything else is incredibly contrived, forcing Sonic into a mold that breaks the limbs and bones of his personality into a mangled heap. Force your egocentrisms on a character and that character dies - and it just becomes a pathetic self-insert fan-fic, your mere wish-fulfillment wondering around in the hollowed skin of what use to be the character like some wicked wendigo. Then by proxy all the characters just becomes a slave to your own solipsism. That is why fan-fics are infamous as they are, because they are net-publicized self-absorption. That is also why I have disdain for Sonamy; it spits on Sonic's face as a free and independent character that doesn't want to be tied down to a codependent stalker-girl. Yet, Sally and Sonic were written to complement each other and better each other as unique characters. 

See I'm not really sure I can agree with that, since the key reason I can't quite side with SonSal is how often Sally is written to 'castrate' Sonic's defining characteristics. As mentioned before she is written as his complete opposite, her way of doing things opposes almost everything that defines him. This has the capacity to work if they were equals and had an even amount of moments they learnt from the other and gained the ability to compromise their own ethics while still showing the strengths of them, but all to often Sally is just written as a 'Women Are Wiser' archetype who always has the better approach and tends to be depicted as a smarter, rational and all around 'better' person than Sonic.

 

I tend to find a lot of Sonic's redeeming aspects tend to get compromised as a result of Sally's necessity to be the moral superior. His whole spontaneous outlook is written more consistently to be reckless and incompetent whenever he specifically butts heads with her. His 'like the wind' imagery is also compromised so he requires Sally's emotional support more. He can't be even tempered as a redeeming aspects since that defies Sally being more rational than him. He can't be positive minded and determined as one either because that gets rid of opportunities for Sally to be a supporting shoulder. They try to give Sally token 'Not So Above It All' moments, but they aren't really consistent or well defined in terms of both developing Sally's proper flaws and complimenting Sonic and his ability to foil her back in a positive way, and seem to only exist to make this treatment look more subtle and avoid Sally hitting 'Mary Sue' territory since she's designed more consistently around her positive traits.

 

We've already been through his treatment in the future arcs, where Sally's has indeed gone full circle in 'castrating' Sonic and making him her king and tied down with her politics and approach, which is pretty much the TOTAL opposite of everything that defines Sonic's character.

 

SonAmy is one note and has little substance, but it is for that reason it seems more harmless, especially since Amy seems far less likely to try to keep Sonic in one place like Sally does. She seems to respect adventure and his approach, she's just kinda an attention whore who wants to be some part of it. At the very least I tend to find myself liking more interpretations of Sonic with Amy as a foil than Sally since his ability to convey both consistent positive and negative aspects on an equal basis is compromised far less (though there are exceptions).

 

 

 I think what you are saying is strict criticism of the clumsy writing. I think Sally has not been fully realized in many works.  And you have made as the judicial system has termed an admission against intrest, you have admitted there is potentiality in that relationship and that there is little with Amy. In fact I have argued that there is a lot of harm in the Sonamy relationship, glorfying shallow puppy-love, obsession, and codependancy (a triple anti-aesop if you will). I have seen cases where Sally has been bested by Sonic and showed she's not the better of the two of them in Satam and Archie, but I agree that there needs to be more. Why? Because their is more hidden in the rock that needs to be mined... Sadly no one on the canon/fanon wall has the guts to get an axe and start picking for diamonds in any relationship Sonic wise. It's all dumb action and deus ex machinas the way people act. I think there is more humanity with Sonic and Sal, and more potential between them.

 

Note that I am speaking as a writer, not a reader. As for the King thing...well it's being dealt with in EoT.

[E122Psi]

I never said there was no hope for SonAmy, just that they keep it to an even more one note scenario than SonSally. The potential for it to be more depthful might not be as visible as it is for the latter, but I don't think it's fair to say it has no hope because it's not done well while SonSally has only writing issues to blame rather than concept itself.

 

Concerning the role reversals between Sonic and Sally, I feel it's because aren't really developed as the ones concerning Sonic and seem to only exist as a non specific case of making the point of 'There, Sally did something wrong, now will you drop the Mary Sue crap?'. Ian does this in spades, trying to give Sally Idiot Ball moments or constantly expositioning how imperfect she is, but it falls short because he doesn't really apply into actual personality traits and how they are foiled. In fact the majority of the time he just makes Sally the total opposite of her personality, becoming cocky and prone to reckless mistakes, which if anything just compromises her own redeeming aspects and makes her look like an inconsistent blank slate (he does the same for Sonic, making him more neurotic and controlling, the complete opposite of who he is meant to be, ironically if you switched their Idiot Ball moments they'd likely be far more consistent and likable characters).

 

It's not just a case of being able to say Sally isn't the better person, it needs to form a consistent personality to make their chemistry work.

[TheRedStranger]

I never said there was no hope for SonAmy, just that they keep it to an even more one note scenario than SonSally. The potential for it to be more depthful might not be as visible as it is for the latter, but I don't think it's fair to say it has no hope because it's not done well while SonSally has only writing issues to blame rather than concept itself.

 

Concerning the role reversals between Sonic and Sally, I feel it's because aren't really developed as the ones concerning Sonic and seem to only exist as a non specific case of making the point of 'There, Sally did something wrong, now will you drop the Mary Sue crap?'. Ian does this in spades, trying to give Sally Idiot Ball moments or constantly expositioning how imperfect she is, but it falls short because he doesn't really apply into actual personality traits and how they are foiled. In fact the majority of the time he just makes Sally the total opposite of her personality, becoming cocky and prone to reckless mistakes, which if anything just compromises her own redeeming aspects and makes her look like an inconsistent blank slate (he does the same for Sonic, making him more neurotic and controlling, the complete opposite of who he is meant to be, ironically if you switched their Idiot Ball moments they'd likely be far more consistent and likable characters).

 

It's not just a case of being able to say Sally isn't the better person, it needs to form a consistent personality to make their chemistry work.

 

I didn't say that anything was hopeless... I am trying to get at Sonsal being more hopeful.

 

 And I'm saying their is more potentiality for dynamics between those two characters, unless of course you make Amy less Amy than she was. I just think sometimes, people don't take the smarest route with Sonsal but it's more worth it from a writer's perspective.

 

 I think discussing how we can fix these problems is better way to got than criticizing needlessly. I would rather reconstruct Sonsal despite the flaws of Archie. 

 

Also I'd like to see some people deliver some counter-point examples in the comics, I want to see source material cited for our argumentation.

 

 And Se3on counts.

[RedAuthar]

 

Then I give the Challenge of Finding the "who" in the book Wolverine Weapon X.  Not a single person in the book is fighting for someone other than themselves, not Logan, Not Cornelius, and definitely not the Professor. 

 

 Professor X cares about millions of people. 

Professor X and The Professor are two different characters.  The Professor is the mind behind Weapon X (Stryker?  He's a preacher in the comics).  

[E122Psi]

While I am maybe focusing on the negative, I am trying to specific enough that it is constructive critism and the key to fixing the chemistry is visible.

 

I think a recurring problem is most of the writers remotely interesting in making Sally 'flawed' don't really understand the 'quirks' and defining characteristics of her personality. Ian doesn't really grasp Sal's personality, she actually tends to come off rather bland most of the time. Hurst got most of the key shortcomings of her character down pat in terms of her demeanor and acting (eg. well intentioned controlling freak, neurotic, self righteous, finicky temperament) but never really made any story opportunities when they were the focus or made her screw up. He probably made the most accurate case where Sonic 'won' against her approach in Drood Henge, specifically winning because Sonic was willing to take an opportunity and was less overcautious and by the book than Sal, but even then, Sally didn't really make a detrimental error in this case, just found a circumstance her way could overlook key advantages.

 

Others try to make a similar rendition, but it never quite has the effect, either because it's harbored with pretentious melodrama and angst (eg. the Slap) or actually involves her flip flopping her approach and doing something that is somewhat reckless (eg. Secret Scrolls, the first issue) which in a sense also makes her look a bit like a hypocrite who badgers Sonic over standards she can't hold up to herself. Writers fail to really pinpoint Sally's flaws in a way that don't make her unsympathetic (or when they do they overdo the waterworks and outright make her errors too forgivable, eg. Ian's wangsty moments in the Iron Dominion arc).

 

I can sorta understand this problem since Sal's approach in a flawed nature would most often make her a control freak, which can often be viewed as very unlikable characters when made in the wrong light. This isn't always the case, but if you don't write their views and feelings consistently enough they can go from a character who merely thinks they know what's best for everyone to something of a self serving bully.

[TheRedStranger]

 

 

Then I give the Challenge of Finding the "who" in the book Wolverine Weapon X.  Not a single person in the book is fighting for someone other than themselves, not Logan, Not Cornelius, and definitely not the Professor. 

 

 Professor X cares about millions of people. 

Professor X and The Professor are two different characters.  The Professor is the mind behind Weapon X (Stryker?  He's a preacher in the comics).  

 

 

Oh...I was confused by the vague simularity. 

 

Also note the subversion of finding the "who",,,sometimes you wanna strangle somebody for hurting you or a loved one.

[RedAuthar]

Professor - Study science and experiment on mutants for his own personal benefit.

Cornelius - Blackmailed into this but doesn't really care.  

Logan - Drugged.  

[TheRedStranger]

Professor - Study science and experiment on mutants for his own personal benefit.

Cornelius - Blackmailed into this but doesn't really care.  

Logan - Drugged.  

 

 Professor sounds he has his "who" write their. A creepy intellectual obsession/fascination with mutants to fufill himself.

 Cornelius, but what does he care about?

 "Drugged?"

[RedAuthar]

Logan is completely unaware of the events during the story.

 

Cornelius lost his wife and son.  He has no reason to live, yet is too scared of death to let himself die.

 

Professor didn't even know Logan was a mutant, he just took advantage of the situation. 

[TheRedStranger]

While I am maybe focusing on the negative, I am trying to specific enough that it is constructive critism and the key to fixing the chemistry is visible.

 

I think a recurring problem is most of the writers remotely interesting in making Sally 'flawed' don't really understand the 'quirks' and defining characteristics of her personality. Ian doesn't really grasp Sal's personality, she actually tends to come off rather bland most of the time. Hurst got most of the key shortcomings of her character down pat in terms of her demeanor and acting (eg. well intentioned controlling freak, neurotic, self righteous, finicky temperament) but never really made any story opportunities when they were the focus or made her screw up. He probably made the most accurate case where Sonic 'won' against her approach in Drood Henge, specifically winning because Sonic was willing to take an opportunity and was less overcautious and by the book than Sal, but even then, Sally didn't really make a detrimental error in this case, just found a circumstance her way could overlook key advantages.

 

Others try to make a similar rendition, but it never quite has the effect, either because it's harbored with pretentious melodrama and angst (eg. the Slap) or actually involves her flip flopping her approach and doing something that is somewhat reckless (eg. Secret Scrolls, the first issue) which in a sense also makes her look a bit like a hypocrite who badgers Sonic over standards she can't hold up to herself. Writers fail to really pinpoint Sally's flaws in a way that don't make her unsympathetic (or when they do they overdo the waterworks and outright make her errors too forgivable, eg. Ian's wangsty moments in the Iron Dominion arc).

 

I can sorta understand this problem since Sal's approach in a flawed nature would most often make her a control freak, which can often be viewed as very unlikable characters when made in the wrong light. This isn't always the case, but if you don't write their views and feelings consistently enough they can go from a character who merely thinks they know what's best for everyone to something of a self serving bully.

 

 I want you to factor in that she is indeed a child solider and leader with tremendous stress on her. She wants her plans to work, and there is room for fallacy and overconfidence. If we look at people like Tesla and Einstein we see their brilliance was variant and they could suffer from mental tunnel vision. I myself have Aspergers, and though, last time I checked in 6th grade, have an IQ in the high one-hundreds, I have some hilariously dumb moments (usually involving finding lost things that were right in front of my face along, like, in literal sense, my glasses. ) I want you take good note of her backstory as character and her mentality for a sec. Abandon the tropic thinking and psychoanalyze her like a real person a for moment.