51 replies to this topic

[fishtheimpaler]

[Palpatine]'s responsible for the entire plot of the movie--well, every movie if you want to get technical--and makes frequent appearances as Darth Sidious via hologram when he's not interacting with the characters as Senator Palpatine. His rise to Supreme Chancellor is also chronicled--which, along with the discovery of Anakin Skywalker, is the whole point of the film.

Yeah, but none of the characters know that. Nor should they. The Trade Federation seems to have motives that are explicable to the characters without the need to further investigate the hologram that's somehow running the show. His role in the film, with the arguable exception of the unrevealing, disconnected fight with Darth Maul, is entirely epiphenomenal. That's why they call it The Phantom Menace rather than The Palpatine Menace or something like that. Well, that's one of the reasons, anyway. (BTW, did you watch that link? "It was the hologram; he made us do it! He looks kind of like Palpatine! We made recordings!")

To bring this around to topic, Stroke Guy's much shorter review of Avatar. Featuring copious comparisons to Titanic, where James Cameron learned the value of setting a budding star-crossed romance against an epic-scale tragedy: $1,835,300,000.

[Lord Exor]

His role in the film, with the arguable exception of the unrevealing, disconnected fight with Darth Maul, is entirely epiphenomenal.

Merely because the characters aren't privy to the existence of Darth Sidious, that renders his role subsidiary? That logic makes no sense.

That's why they call it The Phantom Menace rather than The Palpatine Menace or something like that.

As you are likely aware of, the title of the movie refers to Palpatine/Darth Sidious. He is the "Phantom Menace". That was made explicitly clear by Lucas, despite the already conspicuous connection. He refrained from naming it "The Palpatine Menace" because such an eponymous title is shallow and quite frankly, stupid. So if the title is a direct reference to Palpatine, that must mean the guy is pretty darn important wouldn't you say?

Your argument seems to hinge on the fact that he doesn't have much in terms of a palpable presence throughout the movie when he adopts the guise of Darth Sidious. That is entirely immaterial. His role is crucial nonetheless, and his appearances--even as a hologram--are plentiful enough.

The Trade Federation seems to have motives that are explicable to the characters without the need to further investigate the hologram that's somehow running the show.

No, it doesn't. Qui-Gon expresses his bemusement over the motivations of the Trade Federation early on in the film. "There is something else behind all this, Your Highness. There is no logic in the Federation's move here..."
By the end of the movie, they know the Federation was manipulated by the Sith.

Addendum: If I didn't drive my point home before, I'd also like to point out that Augie's Municipal Band--the title of the victory celebration music that plays at the very end of the film--is The Emperor's Theme in major key. Gee, wonder why they did that.

[acstrife]

Hate to be a bother, but this is off topic.

This is an Avatar topic not a Star Wars one, even though I love star wars more than the 500 mil piece of garbage they call Avatar.

[masterblaster]

I liked the film but spent the entire movie cheering for the marines. Just like I did for Aliens.

The movie was very beautiful visually, the props and effects were awesome I thought.

But this movie isn't "Best Picture" material. Maybe "Best Director" (since Cameron did make some pretty innovative camera technology for this film, and lead every aspect of production) but certianly not "Best Picture" IMHO.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

But this movie isn't "Best Picture" material. Maybe "Best Director" (since Cameron did make some pretty innovative camera technology for this film, and lead every aspect of production)

They have a separate category for that called "Best Visual Effects", that fittingly has nothing to do with the director. That would be like awarding George Lucas "Best Director" just for shooting the prequel Star Wars in HD video rather than traditional film.

[masterblaster]

For as much as Avatar really is, you're right, "Best Speical Effects" would prolly be the most fitting. Avatar is going home with "something" on March 7. It will be a huge upset if Cameron walks away with nothing. I just hope it isn't "Best Picture". District 9, Up, Hurt Locker, much more worthly of the title.

Besides, Cameron has done wayyy better then Avatar...

[fishtheimpaler]

Look, Avatar is getting the Best Picture award, so just get used to the idea. Popular, non-horrible films will invariably beat out a superior but less popular film for the big award. This happened again and again in the 90s. (Forrest Gump beats Pulp Fiction; Titanic beats L.A. Confidential, American Beauty beats The Insider.) Critics generally liked it, despite acknowledging its flaws, it made tons of money, and it was super-powerful with the public. Critics basically begged Americans to watch The Hurt Locker (iirc Roger Ebert literally actually begged audiences to see it instead of G.I. Joe: the Rise of Cobra or Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen), but they didn't; it's not winning. Critically endorsed but less popular movies tend to walk away with the screenplay awards, and the Best Animated Feature award was invented specifically so the Academy would never have to embarass audiences by insisting that something made by Disney was superior to the allegedy grown-up movies to which they gave repeat viewings.

To summarize:

Best Picture - Avatar
Best Original Screenplay - The Hurt Locker
Best Adapted Screenplay - District 9 (or possibly Up In the Air? I haven't seen a lot of these)
Best Animated Feature - Up

[Tristan Palmgren]

Look, Avatar is getting the Best Picture award, so just get used to the idea.

Not necessarily. The Oscars switched to a different voting system this year. Voters can rank their second and third choices, and so on. It's going to be trickier for a movie to win with a bare 30% plurality.

[fishtheimpaler]

Interesting! As far as I can tell this means that the new voting system is going to be equivalent to the system used to select nominees, but with votes limited only to the nominees. That could shake things up.

Weird that they apparently decided to implement it only in the Best Picture voting, though. I imagine that award is worth a ton more than all the other awards in terms of repeat business, so maybe there's more brutal politicking over it. You could have like a study in Oscar Politics here if it weren't for the fact that all the voting is secret.

[Ratty Randnums]

RedLetterMedia gave a fairly insightful review of Avatar and why it's appealing. (Mixed in with general weirdness and dark humor of course.)
Interesting for students of film or art in general.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

It looks like the AVATAR sequel will be a rip off of Disney's The Little Mermaid rather than Disney's Pocahontas.

http://www.slashfilm...ans-of-pandora/

[acstrife]

It looks like the AVATAR sequel will be a rip off of Disney's The Little Mermaid rather than Disney's Pocahontas.

http://www.slashfilm...ans-of-pandora/

Please say you are joking?