31 replies to this topic

[Gojira007]

Truth be told, I would just as soon have the final fall of Robotnik mark the end of the story in general.

Still, I doubt that's quite the answer you're looking for, so I'd reccommend making the story about re-building. Not just physically, either. There's no way Robotnik's extended reign hasn't completely butchered Social and Political structures all over the planet beyond just Mobotropolis, and that means there's going to be a lot of strife between Nations once he's gone. The Freedom Fighters thus become a kind of globe-trotting Peace Corps., helping to re-establish political connections for the slowly-healing Mobotropolis while also helping these other Nations and Societies themselves to rebuild. Of course, all that dissonance and chaos would provide ample breeding grounds for Anarchists and rebels uninterested in seeing such power structures restored, as well as a variety of other adversaries for our heroes to face.

I realize that may be a bit too...I don't want to say "mature", but perhaps nuanced, for a younger audience, but it honestly just feels like the most natural progression for the story to take post-Robotnik Empire. I hold no illusions that it's the perfect fit, either, but it's just one idea of mine, so...take it for what it's worth.

[Chaosmaster8753]

Does anyone think Ben Hurst's direction for Julian for Season 3 was a good or bad idea?

[Gojira007]

While I could see a story on rebuilding how long could you work with that for an ongoing series, and without Julian at that? And how far are we talking?

I s'pose it depends. Obviously, a rebuilding story couldn't last forever, but no single story really can; the entire thread is predicated on that, in fact. So I'd say, in terms of TV shows, the equivalent of a Season; in terms of comics, 25 or so issues. As for doing it sans Julian, as I said, the situation naturally lends itself to all manner of new bad guys. None would be as powerful or iconic as Julian necessarily, though it's certainly possible such a character might emerge under the right circumstances, but no one really could be (which is why I still feel the definitive end of Robotnik ideally marks the end of the story, but again, that's not the issue here), and the nature of the conflict would be such that such a villain isn't really required anyway.

In Archie Sonic and co went to school.

Personally, I don't think that'd be a concern here. The whole point is that Social Order is in disarray, so it isn't like there's really an Educational System as such in place anyway, though certainly finding a way to implement one could be made part of the overall narrative of repairing Mobotropolis and other places. Given that they're the ones who beat Robotnik, though, the FF's would likely be too busy trying to fix that to bother with School until the job was done anyway.

[Gojira007]

I don't attest to the idea of new villians but no more Julian? Wouldn't that be justifying the total removal of him in stuff like Archie (replacing him with Eggman)?

As I've said, I personally believe that the definitive end of Robotnik's Empire (rather than simply a fleeting victory that is later undone) is the best place for any SatAM-based story to end.

The question of this thread, however, is determining what one would do afterwards, and wiithout his Empire behind him, there is very little point to keeping Robotnik around (or alive; whatever blow the Freedom Fighters deal that's strong enough to permanently cripple the Robotnik Empire is likely powerful enough to take him out with it too) unless it's to have him eventually rebound and rebuild it, which defeats the whole purpose of moving past that phase of the story to begin with.

I realize, of course, that saying "Ha ha, just kidding!" and re-visiting villains who had seemingly been beaten for good is a common tactic in many Comic Books and Video Games, and indeed sometimes it can lead to some very satisfying stories ("Planet X" by Grant Morrisson from his New X-Men run comes to mind immediately, as does the effective immortalization of Gannondorf from Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time onwards), but in this case, I don't feel right going that route, because
a.) you asked us to come up with a NEW status quo, not just the old status quo with a new coat of paint
and
b.) I simply feel like the one victory the Freedom Fighters deserve to keep more than any other is the final one over Robotnik, because it's the one they've struggled to attain for most of their lives. Sentimental, I know, but there you have it.

As for "justifying the total removal" of Robotnik to be switched with Eggman? I suppose if someone else read all this (and bless them if they had the patience for that lD ) and wanted to use some of my rationale for such a thing, they could, but they'd be missing the point. Because ultimately, this hypothetical rebuilding story isn't about taking Julian out of the story to then just replace him with an all-but-identical bad guy; again, that's just doing the same story all over again with a new coat of paint. This is about seeing what new stories could be told under the circumstance you gave us, namely the definitive end of the Robotnik Empire.

[Gojira007]

While it's fairly likely Julian could be blown away with his empire, he's survived some close calls before. This is an ongoing series and being Robotnik is the lead villain of the entire story let's say hypothetically he manages a way out and doesn't die. What then?

There's really only one thing that could happen, if you ask me: Robotnik would do whatever it took to get his Empire back. Either that ends in failure or else he succeeds and we're right back where we started from. Again, your question seemed about moving away from that, not just finding a new role for Robotnik in the story once that phase was over with.

So outside of the position of an evil emperor of the Robotnik Empire, Julian couldn't offer any other kinds of villainy?

Well see, ultimately, Julian's whole character is based on his Emperor Complex. It simply doesn't make sense to me for him to still be alive and not trying to re-establish his Empire. The problem is, without his Empire, he simply is not that formidable an enemy. To be certain, he's got a very sharp mind, and he can hold his own in a fight, but in both SatAM and Archie, his M.O. is sending his Robot minions out to do his dirty work for him; when he does fight on his own, he's just not as big a threat. So, as I said before, your options are either to have him succeed in rebuilding his Empire, in which case we've effectively gone back to the Status Quo we were trying to move away from, or else have Robotnik show up time and again trying to start his Empire anew and failing, in which case he starts to look less and less effective as a villain.

Most SatAM fans would sort of disagree Eggman's the same kind of villain as Julian (and hence people who use your rationale wouldn't be seeing it as the same villainy with a new coat of paint). I'm a little confused by what you've said here I guess ^^;

Personally, I find most of the differences people cite between Robotnik and Eggman to be a bit superficial, at least in Archie. Their designs are certainly very different, of course, and Eggman is indeed a somewhat goofier character these days (though going crazy'll do that to you l3; ), but their core personas are pretty much the same. That makes sense, too, because remember, Eggman is simply another Zone's version of Julian. Those who cite Eggman's "goofier" moments and greater incompetence compared to Julian forget both that Julian too was capable of great moments of goofiness and incompetence too (yes, even in SatAM and the Comic after it had moved away from its slapstick days), and that Eggman has proven to be as heartless a bastard as Julian ever was time and time again himself. So yes, I do indeed feel that putting Eggman in Julian's former position but still having him lead an Empire (until recent events changed that, obviously) was basically a way of doing the same story but with a different look.

[Tristan Palmgren]

What wouldn't I do with Julian-- Oh, sorry, you're talking about something else. *clears throat.*

Even if the Mobians win enough of their wars to take back Robotropolis, there's no reason that has to mean the end of Julian. It would be an interesting twist if he were to become the underdog, though the writers would have to work to keep the tension at the same level--and a way to do that would be to have Robotnik consider methods that the Freedom Fighters never would. Large-scale bombings, hostage-taking, etc. And the Freedom Fighters wouldn't be able to hide, not if they're rebuilding the city, so Robotnik could target them personally. What would Tails's life be like if he couldn't go out, couldn't tell anyone but his closest friends where he was, for fear of being targeted to get at Sonic and Sally?

Think of the Joker and Gotham. The Joker doesn't have official control over Gotham, but he still manages to make everything revolve around him regardless.

If Robotnik is out of power, the story could also widen its scope. The series focused on Robotropolis, but there are other cities out there. The Mobians fought the Great War against someone. Who were they and could Robotnik manipulate or ally with them? With its economy in shambles and without Robotnik's machines running everything, but the new Mobotropolis be the powerhouse it once was, or would it be at a disadvantage against other powers?

[SBaby]

There's no way Robotnik's extended reign hasn't completely butchered Social and Political structures all over the planet beyond just Mobotropolis, and that means there's going to be a lot of strife between Nations once he's gone.

You've got a point. After all, who WERE they fighting against during the Great War? Maybe there's another superpower out there and they were just fighting to free themselves from it. Who's to say that nation isn't still there? In fact, is it possible that in his escape, Robotnik may have found his way there? Maybe he's biding his time with the Mobians over there, or maybe he's already taken over and is preparing to attack with a much larger force. Large scale battles now. See how things could easily escalate with but one or two tiny tweaks?

Not only that, but with Snively and Naugus both running Robotropolis, now the Freedom Fighters are fighting a war on two fronts. Would they be able to handle such a task from their base in Knothole with their current resources? Or would they have to find another base, or possibly another power source to level the playing field?

[The Man]

Simple. I would create another mobian empire somewhere opposed to Acorn rule. Maybe the empire didn't collaborate with Robotnik but were powerful enough to be left alone or neutral.

A new strict democracy or a cruel tyrant monarch? What awaits outside the Knothole shrubs and Robotropolis barbed-wire?

[DCC]

I would have Robotnic/Juilan defeated for good. I might do some stories about the Freedom Fighters rebuilding their world, as well as wrap things up. As much as I love the series, I think it is probably would be best to end the series at some point. I guess I am not one to want to change the status quo drastically.

[Massagraf]

Reversing the roles would be best. Mobotropolis is regained by the Freedom Fighters and the citizens are de-robotosized (I'd really like to see this place happy for once). Robotnik and Snively are trying to take the city back, but really cruel, by capturing, torturing, robotosizing and maybe even killing some citizens (the more drama the better, the series would be more epic if made for an older audience). I don't think season 3 would be very fun without Robotnik, one of the best characters of the series.

The underdog villain trying to take over the world (OF COURSE!) is not really original but I'd love to see the roles reversed and Robotnik trying to fight his own guerilla-war. Killing him off... well, maybe in the final episode. No cliffhanger, really the final.

[Lord Exor]

I don't believe the roles should ever be reversed. End the story after Robotnik is removed from power.

[The Man]

Basically, Julian dead or alive?

Alive he has a certain amount of power/influence about him like everything else.

Dead means a new villian and plot.

Since this question is open-ended it can go anywhere. The most natural reaction imo is a furry more powerful and dangerous than Robotnik. Maybe a powerful old foe of the King? I'm not sure if I want to go to that much trouble to invent anyone specific.

Depending on the author it's doubtful there's an extent of a villian or idea for this show. Tempting as it is, I'm not going to make a topic about SatAM's upper limit.

[LaserX5]

So here's my question. Let's hypothetically say SatAM was going to be an ongoing comic or series of games . After the plotline of Julian having an empire has been done for awhile and a new status quo needs to emerge, what kind of new status quo would you make to shake things up?

If they had Satam video games, I wouldn't change anything except add the current Sega characters, like Shadow, Silver, Blaze and Rouge. The plotline is gold and the current characters are well beloved.

But if it had to have a big change, then make a game where its the final battle between the FF and Dr.Robotnik in an all out war.

As for the comic, same thing. Show a final duel and end it with the FF emerging victorious and the planet Mobius finally at peace.

No use overdoing a top notch plot.

[IAMAWSOME]

i would do what anyone would do cut him up and burn the remains. id be like and heed be like

[Mithrandir]

When I first heard about Hurst's ideas for Season 3 regarding Robotnik, my mind basically went to imagining a scenario where Naugus feels he has achieved total control by way of magic, only to have a situation much like the one with Snively; Robotnik, as the "lackey", has been plotting all along to bring about Naugus' downfall via technology. The battle becomes Naugus' magic (which could've incorporated Knuckles and the Emeralds on the Floating Island, if it's true he was supposed to appear in Season 3), Robotnik's technology, and the Freedom Fighters essentially representing the natural world.

Robotnik could've done this by engineering the Death Egg, which many of the old school game fans would've loved to see.