What did you think about STC's idea of making Robotnik with a dual personality? Sometimes with the whole Julian-Eggman thing in Archie I thouht it'd be better to just do it that way then to turn the Iron Queen upside down if it was REALLY that big a deal to bring Julian back since it easily resolves drastically different takes on "him" so to speak. Even in Archie I wonder--how long could they have ran a dictator/rebel plot? it probably could've been used to add at least an occasional difference in status quo to give the viewer the impression things were going somewhere at least. I also kinda liked the idea that Sonic used to have a good relationship with Robotnik, his other personalities could really exploit that weakness
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Robotnik with Split Personalities
Started by
Guest_Miko_*
, Dec 16 2009 10:31 PM
11 replies to this topic
#2
Cheezmatt
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Posted 16 December 2009 - 10:45 PM
Eggman's personality switching back and forth between his doofus videogame persona and Robotnik Prime? That would be awful.
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#3
Guest_Miko_*
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Posted 16 December 2009 - 10:55 PM
why's that? o.o I'm not mad or anything but i just wanna hear a more extensive take on what you mean.
#4
Cheezmatt
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Posted 16 December 2009 - 11:26 PM
Incorporating the personality of the original Big Bad into a clownish villain would only dilute the former's legacy. Villains who have multiple personality disorders tend to be pitiable figures, and Robotnik Prime should never be an object of pity. And in the end it's still not the Robotnik Sonic fought to the death as his ultimate nemesis, or the one who made Mobius hell for 11 years; just a schizophrenic copy. A boost to Eggman's cred from these brief flashes of brilliance just wouldn't be worth it. Leave him a clown, he's too far gone.
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#5
chalcara
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Posted 17 December 2009 - 12:34 AM
Actually, the "split" personality of Sonic the Comic works a bit different.
Kintobor (Robotnik's good "side") was a warm and nice researcher, who actually befriended and worked together with pre-speedster Sonic - until Kintobor started fucking around with the Chaos Emeralds, which in STC are pure, undiluted evil. Things happened (the whole story is a bit complicated and Sonic was at least partly responsible...) and Kintobor turned into Robotnik and eventually took over Mobius.
I'm not aware that Robotnik even once switched back, but the English comic ran way longer than the German translation.
Last thing I know about Robotnik is that he turned gibbering mad at the end of the STC Sonic Adventures Adaption. Although he seems to be making a comeback in the Semi-official fan continuation. (Think the STC version of Season 3)
Basically Sonic and Robotnik have a classical Supervillian/Superhero origin story in STC, but it fits WONDERUFLLY. I cannot fault it, it gave us psycho-Super.
Kintobor (Robotnik's good "side") was a warm and nice researcher, who actually befriended and worked together with pre-speedster Sonic - until Kintobor started fucking around with the Chaos Emeralds, which in STC are pure, undiluted evil. Things happened (the whole story is a bit complicated and Sonic was at least partly responsible...) and Kintobor turned into Robotnik and eventually took over Mobius.
I'm not aware that Robotnik even once switched back, but the English comic ran way longer than the German translation.
Last thing I know about Robotnik is that he turned gibbering mad at the end of the STC Sonic Adventures Adaption. Although he seems to be making a comeback in the Semi-official fan continuation. (Think the STC version of Season 3)
Basically Sonic and Robotnik have a classical Supervillian/Superhero origin story in STC, but it fits WONDERUFLLY. I cannot fault it, it gave us psycho-Super.
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#6
Cheezmatt
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Posted 17 December 2009 - 01:41 AM
Yes, the story of STC's Kintobor/Robotnik makes him an ultimately tragic villain. The pitiable aspect of an Eggman/Julian fusion on the other hand is the former despot of Mobius's personality being juxtaposed with a gibbering idiot.
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#7
Lord Exor
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Posted 17 December 2009 - 07:57 AM
But people looove pitiable, sympathetic villains because they're soooo cool.
#8
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Posted 17 December 2009 - 08:59 AM
QUOTE (Cheezmatt @ Dec 17 2009, 07:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Incorporating the personality of the original Big Bad into a clownish villain would only dilute the former's legacy.
The problem I'm finding with that statement its applying the other personalities to Julian. Perhaps the other personalities/personality would be pitiable, but not Julian's who'd be very quick in such a situation to make it clear that he sees himself as a distinct individual who is therefore not attatched to the legacies of others. Whether that means using other personalities to manipulate his opponents when he sees fit, or exploiting them in other ways.
QUOTE
Villains who have multiple personality disorders tend to be pitiable figures, and Robotnik Prime should never be an object of pity.
I could see the heroes pitying other personalities, but not Julian, because Julian would more than likely use it to manipulate the characters into doing things against their wishes. It's very possible to for example hate one personality and love another. One of the only differences between us is our differences in personality after all. What you're saying is like saying that because person A certain way it must reflect upon person B as well.
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Leave him a clown, he's too far gone.
But don't you think the attitude surrounding this comment is just, "It sucks, let it suck, don't do anything to rectify the problem in a somewhat feasible way at least." I was never trying to discuss the idea as a merge of the personalities (Robotnik more kind and gentle like Kintobor, or Eggman having a moment of cunning). It was more of, I was wondering how it'd be if they were distinct personalities that arrived and offered status quos in phases. Each distinct personality coming and leaving after a story arc or when a status quo has become too gone on too long and needed some variability (Kintobor perhaps being a very rare occurence..?). Although it may be a little interesting if one personality ocassionally bled through during a story to deliberately screw over another's plan.
QUOTE
Yes, the story of STC's Kintobor/Robotnik makes him an ultimately tragic villain. The pitiable aspect of an Eggman/Julian fusion on the other hand is the former despot of Mobius's personality being juxtaposed with a gibbering idiot.
I don't get it. You can consider it a tragic villain if it's Kintobor despite the fact he's a pitiable character (who pretty much sucks as a villainy) juxtaposed to a Robotnik who to my knowledge was also a dictator. Can someone explain where the big difference is o.o;
#9
furrykef
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Posted 17 December 2009 - 07:52 PM
QUOTE (Cheezmatt @ Dec 17 2009, 12:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Eggman's personality switching back and forth between his doofus videogame persona and Robotnik Prime? That would be awful.
Which is exactly what Archie did in some of its earlier issues. I find I often keep reading Robotnik Prime with AoStH Rrrrobotnik's voice...
#10
chalcara
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Oh the stupidity!
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Posted 18 December 2009 - 05:48 AM
For starters Kintobor has never, ever been a villian.
He's been a kind, slightly dizzy but ultimatly helpful benefactor for the mobians - until he got corrupted beyound repair into what's now STC Robotnik.
Funfact: Sonic and the other freedom fighters actually have a copy of Kintobor still around in a kind of computer system - think Nicole in SatAM, but stationary.
STC Robotnik has a tragic backstory, but the villian itself used to be really bad ass and nasty. Like I said, but for the very first issues, STC-Robotnik gives SatAM Robotnik a run for his money in the evil department - at least unti Chaos broke his mind. Ooops.
Whole different ballgame than a split personality.
He's been a kind, slightly dizzy but ultimatly helpful benefactor for the mobians - until he got corrupted beyound repair into what's now STC Robotnik.
Funfact: Sonic and the other freedom fighters actually have a copy of Kintobor still around in a kind of computer system - think Nicole in SatAM, but stationary.
STC Robotnik has a tragic backstory, but the villian itself used to be really bad ass and nasty. Like I said, but for the very first issues, STC-Robotnik gives SatAM Robotnik a run for his money in the evil department - at least unti Chaos broke his mind. Ooops.
Whole different ballgame than a split personality.
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#11
Guest_Miko_*
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Posted 18 December 2009 - 09:54 AM
QUOTE
For starters Kintobor has never, ever been a villian.
My mistake on that part. I hadn't really gotten the chance to read STC
QUOTE
Which is exactly what Archie did in some of its earlier issues. I find I often keep reading Robotnik Prime with AoStH Rrrrobotnik's voice...
I wouldn't say it's exactly the same thing. There as nothing to indicate to the viewers that this was a distinct personality, so viewers read it as an extention of Julian's personality even if it was inconsistent.
So here's the issue I'm still not being seen addressed in these complaints.
Firstly, the games and the comics for example are mediums that work with the idea of being ongoing. You cannot compare them to your standard cartoon which generally has a few seasons before it's expected to end. And even THEN, Ben had to undermine Julian by making him a subordinate to Naugus. It would never have remained as anyone presently imagines. So my question is this: How would you then, switch up the status quo while using Robotnik (that is offer a new kind of status quo for Sonic and Robotnik for a little while), and how would you respond to the different tastes people have with Robotnik? And no, saying "screw those fans" is not an option, plus it's kind of hypocritical since it's the same treatment SEGA and Archie have been giving SatAM fans). A person with split personalities seemed to facilitate this idea for me easily but it doesn't for everyone. Still, I don't think it dilutes anyone's personality, because having experience with individuals who actually have this, their personality is still their personality. They just have other personalities that will routinely manifest to share the same body. The body is the only thing that is the same, but But what are your ideas?
QUOTE
STC-Robotnik gives SatAM Robotnik a run for his money in the evil department
What kind of thingds did he do?
#12
Lord Exor
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Posted 18 December 2009 - 10:47 AM
QUOTE (furrykef @ Dec 17 2009, 10:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Which is exactly what Archie did in some of its earlier issues. I find I often keep reading Robotnik Prime with AoStH Rrrrobotnik's voice...
Robotnik Prime was silly in the earlier issues due to the overall tone of the comic being comical at that point in time. After that, with the shift toward decidedly more serious storytelling, Robotnik was retconned into being nearly identical to his SatAM incarnation.
The reason why his personality seemed to vacillate is explained by the fact that all the slapstick stories that were published around the latter half of Robotnik's run were actually old stories that were backlogged.
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