25 replies to this topic

[BigWigRah]

hey hey, I know i haven't been around in a while, but I figured you were just the kind of people to appreciate this.

about six months ago, I made the decision to watch the Watership Down 1978 film. At the time I watched it, it definitely made an impression on me. I enjoyed the story, the characters were interesting, and most of all the atmosphere was dark and intense, despite being about rabbits.

After watching the film, it left my mind until about a week and a half ago when I made the casual decision to watch it again. I've realized that it's not a good film, but a great one. Their story is touching and pulls you in, the voice acting is fantastic, and the musical score really aids in the impact of the scenes.

Having gained a new respect for the film, I am now reading the book, and it's even better than the amazing movie. Not only are the characters interesting, but the relationship between the characters is so well developed and believable. Furthermore, Adams is an amazing writer. He does more than just describe a scene in vivid detail, but does so in such a poetic fashion that gives a mood as well as a setting. I also can't help but enjoy the concept behind the rabbit's mythology and language. A lot of the words are derived from Arabic, and are at times very convenient to use.

I should probably finish the last 75 pages of the book or so tonight or tomorrow morning. It's been a while since i've had something pull me in like this, and I just wanted to see if I could get a few HELL YEAH'S out of this. Do any of you have an experience with the book, or something you really enjoyed about it?

I'd love to hear your stories. Peace and may frith guide you

[MistressAli]

I remember picking the book out when I was 12/13 for a book report project we had. I read a lot of books with animals so naturally, out of the limited book choices we had, I picked the one with the bunny on the cover Turns out I loved the book and actually never returned it to the school Watership Down is still one of my favorite books. I need to read it again sometime.
I like the mythology and the rabbit language as well. It's got a lot of morose moments, like the 'shining wires' chapter and the overcrowding of rabbits in General Woundwort's warren, but I like a touch of darkness to my stories, so it's all good. Bigwig is probably my fave bunny, he just rules Heh, now I want to read it again
I've only watched the movie once... I should do that again sometime too.

[BigWigRah]

I feel like I can heavily relate to BigWig. Perplexity is worse than danger for him, but once in the action, he comes alive. That's pretty much me in a nutshell.

20 points for stealing Watership Down from the library

what's so striking about the book is that it has something to appeal to everyone. Publishers were scared to touch the book at first though. They thought that older kids wouldn't like it because it's a book about rabbits, and younger kids wouldn't get it because it's written in an adult style. Turns out that people of all ages loved it in the UK. It was actually more popular in America at first surprisingly.

I'm really surprised I never read this for school, it's such a beautiful work and so well written. I'm assuming that we didn't read it in school because it didn't have any cultural or racial commentary, considering EVERYTHING ELSE they made me read was about that. Never got to read anything conceptually creative as this.

Despite not having any racial commentary, it does however offer a close look at the flaws of a totalitarian society towards the end with Efrafa, a warren in which all the movements of its members are controlled in the name of security. Adams never intended WD to be an allegory; it was just a story he made up for his daughters on a long car ride, and they convinced him to write it down. The characters are all the more convincing because he based them off of soldiers he met while serving in WW2. You really get that impression with the owsla.

I can't say i'm familiar with any other stories where animals are the main characters. I'd love to find more if there are any as well written as this. I know adams wrote another book called "plague dogs," although I know nothing about it.

almost done with WD, better go finish.

[chief]

I remember I had to read it in school.. Not sure what grade I was in when I did it... But it was a long time ago, as I forget almost everything to do with it. I want to say something about rabies but I am almost positive I'm mixing that in with something else.

I don't think I ever saw the movie though.. perhaps I should one day.

[BigWigRah]

Well Chief, you seem like you enjoy twisted stuff. Some of the scenes of rabbits killing each other and such are kinda disturbing. The disturbing stuff is not the main point of Watership Down, but it certainly contributes to the urgency of their situation.

[chief]

Oh I'm not big on twisted stuff... Well, I am. But I prefer stuff with more of a story towards everything. That's just sadly the only part I can recall.

[fishtheimpaler]

I can't say i'm familiar with any other stories where animals are the main characters. I'd love to find more if there are any as well written as this. I know adams wrote another book called "plague dogs," although I know nothing about it.

Infinitely more depressing than Watership, I can tell you that.

I very much like the willingness of the novel to make the rabbits genuinely alien half the time, with their weird biology, ancient Greek attitude toward women as semi-chattel, and incredibly tiny brains.

[Velvet D'Coolette]

Chief, likely you're thinking rabies because that was the driver for the plot for Plague Dogs: the two dogs Snitter and Rowf escaped a lab and were thought to have contracted rabies during their escape. Therefore they were being hunted by the lab in the hope of picking them up before they spread the illness any further. I have read the book and seen half the film, but don't remember much about how it ends.

Both interpretations have a grim, dark quality and preserve Snitter and Rowf's canine attitudes and world views. And Todd's too, of course But it's not a story to read if you're depressed. The film has much of the same darkness and mythological bent of Felidae, although while Felidae's supernatural qualities are to do with ghosts and dreams, Plague Dogs' derives more from Snitter's insanity. But the menacing result is much the same.

I bought Watership Down ages ago to read because the author of the Dragoncharm trilogy claimed to have based his dragons (especially the Naturals) off the rabbits therein, and on the moles in Duncton Wood. I was very impressed with Watership Down for pretty much the same reasons as you've given, SoulTenor.

I did, however, see the 70's version of the film right from young. I loved that, too, even if it was a bit dark. In later years, mum told me that whenever the film got to the bit where Kehaar tells Hazel to 'Piss off!', she always felt a bit awkward for letting her daughter hear swearing. But I'd always thought he said, 'Get off!' That accent was always very thick...

I looked about on YouTube for Watership Down a couple of months back only to discover that there's a remake of the cartoon. I didn't watch much of it, just a couple of minutes somewhere in the middle of it, but it doesn't look anywhere near as good.

[BigWigRah]

yeah, just finished the book last nigh. the end is so bittersweet where Hazel is taken by the black rabbit. I'm considering reading plague dogs next, but am not so sure I would enjoy that as much. I get the impression that it's gonna be a morbid slosh all the way through. Should I just watch the movie instead Velvet?

also: silflay hraka

[Velvet D'Coolette]

yeah, just finished the book last nigh. the end is so bittersweet where Hazel is taken by the black rabbit.

Aye, but he is old by then.

I'm considering reading plague dogs next, but am not so sure I would enjoy that as much. I get the impression that it's gonna be a morbid slosh all the way through. Should I just watch the movie instead Velvet?

Well, it would get the story over with quicker, and you'd still know what it was about. Whatever you like, really. I don't think the book had all that much going for it, unless you really like bleak storylines.

also: silflay hraka

Language, Timothy!

[BigWigRah]

velvet, no one is going to get your limey British references to 80's sitcoms.

What I'd really like to find are more books similar to Watership Down, if such books really exist. I'm in the awkward position of not having anything to read, but not knowing what I should follow up Watership with. what a cluster****.

Should I ever go to south England, i'd love to visit the down itself. I've seen photos of the beech hanger and the tree carvings. It looks almost exactly as Adams described it.

another question about Watership. I never quite understood why the left the story of el ahrairah and the black rabbit of inle unfinished. Frith rewarded El Ahrairah for his perseverance by giving him back his missing ears/tail/whiskers that he lost through gambling with Inle. Frith was also to give a reward to Rabscuttle, but we never get to see what that reward is, as the Homba shows up. I couldn't help but wonder what he would have received for his undying loyalty to El Ahrairah. Don't know how important that really is though. I'm also not clear as to what the black rabbit is meant to represent other than death. Is it implied that the rabbits are doomed to die at a predestined time, or does the black rabbit simply personify death, and it comes whenever one "stops running?"

Ah yes. Have any of you by chance read Tales from Watership Down? I know it was written by Richard Adams 24 years later, and is a collection of short stories about El Ahrairah and the Watership warren. Is that actually worth a read? Does it contain a lot of the same elements as Watership Down that made it so good?

[MistressAli]

I read Plague Dogs after reading Watership Down (so I was still pretty young) I found it really hard to get into and had a hard time understanding it as well. I don't remember much of it, really. I thought the dogs were rumored to be carrying the plague though, hence the title. It's not really anything like Watership Down so I wouldn't recommend it.
I also read 'Tales from Watership Down' but didn't think it's as good as the previous... though I read it a while back, so maybe it was just initial disappointment talking there. I should read that one again.

There is another book I like, called 'Tailchaser's Song' by Tad Williams. The characters are all cats, and similar to 'Watership' in the fact that it has cat language, mythology and the main character kitty leaving his home to go on a quest out in the unknown world. It's a little more fantasy and less reality than Watership, and not quite as good or as long, but still a nice read.

[Velvet D'Coolette]

velvet, no one is going to get your limey British references to 80's sitcoms.

There's no flies on you, are there?

What I'd really like to find are more books similar to Watership Down, if such books really exist. I'm in the awkward position of not having anything to read, but not knowing what I should follow up Watership with. what a cluster****.

As I hinted at before, Duncton Wood. And, if you're up for it, Dragoncharm, which is quite old (about 15 years now), but a pleasant read. Both books are the first in trilogies, with further books beyond if you wish.

Should I ever go to south England, i'd love to visit the down itself. I've seen photos of the beech hanger and the tree carvings. It looks almost exactly as Adams described it.

I often go walking on the south downs, they're very pleasant, certainly. I'm not sure whether that huge beech at the top of the hill actually exists anywhere on the downs - it seems to be something of a plot device because Hazel wanted a communal area like Cowslip's. It partly prompts them to settle right there. And it provides a highly visible beacon in the film version when the rabbits are relaying to bring the dog to the burrow.

another question about Watership. I never quite understood why the left the story of el ahrairah and the black rabbit of inle unfinished. Frith rewarded El Ahrairah for his perseverance by giving him back his missing ears/tail/whiskers that he lost through gambling with Inle. Frith was also to give a reward to Rabscuttle, but we never get to see what that reward is, as the Homba shows up. I couldn't help but wonder what he would have received for his undying loyalty to El Ahrairah. Don't know how important that really is though.

Maybe it's worth a fanfiction? I forget the main detail of that story, but I do remember the dock leaves El Ahrairah used as ear replacements. Well, whatever Rabscuttle got, maybe the reward came after his death. Hazel got his reward in death, after all: a place in his god's owsla.

I'm also not clear as to what the black rabbit is meant to represent other than death. Is it implied that the rabbits are doomed to die at a predestined time, or does the black rabbit simply personify death, and it comes whenever one "stops running?"

I've always taken it to be the grim reaper for rabbits. Or a kind of Ghost of Christmas Future - remember that he looked like the grim reaper but didn't take Scrooge's life, just pointed out what was going to happen? The Black Rabbit of Inle did that with Fiver, showing him where Hazel was.

Ah yes. Have any of you by chance read Tales from Watership Down? I know it was written by Richard Adams 24 years later, and is a collection of short stories about El Ahrairah and the Watership warren. Is that actually worth a read? Does it contain a lot of the same elements as Watership Down that made it so good?

I had no idea that existed. I'm going to have to hunt it down now.

Oh, and:

Dunction Wood: A population of moles in a small wood called Duncton await the arrival of a mythical figure called the Stone Mole. Ignorance and general lack of intelligence is rife in their community and a false alarm arises in the form of a loner called Bracken, who lives a little way distant from the main group. Then a huge, malevolent mole called Mandrake appears and takes over the community. Soon he bears a daughter, Rebecca. Duncton Wood follows the story of Bracken and Rebecca, the other moles who affect their lives and the problems that are woven into mole society.

I recommend this as one of the closest stories you can get to Watership Down. In the second book you'll meet Mayweed, who may possibly become one of your favourite characters ever. Certainly he is one of mine. I gave the Duncton Wood books away ages ago but would love to have kept them so that I could cultivate a character of my own with Mayweed's speech pattern. Unfortunately there isn't a sample on the 'net I could use, either.

Dragoncharm: Two subtypes of dragons exist: the Charmed, a four-legged, ancient breed who impressed bright colours into their scales, breathe fire and work magic, and a newer breed, the Naturals. The Naturals have rear legs and strong, large wings as forelimbs, have naturally coloured scales of brown or dull green or red, and have no access to magic. The Charmed resent the Naturals, who they see as brutes, and worldwide unrest is setting the two groups against eachother.

What makes it worse is that the magic is disappearing from the world, and that's making the Charmed angry, and sick. The Turning of the World (as the loss of magic is called) threatens to tear the planet apart, if it's not helped. To this end, one Natural called Fortune, and a Charmed called Cumber, are sent to the centre of dragon civilization to warn the leader. But soon they find themselves buried deeper into the problems of the world than they first thought.

This trilogy ends with a story called Dragonflame, which has some of the most wonderful visual pieces I've ever read, and an explosive conclusion. What ends up happening to Fortune, his daughter and his grandson is pretty neat, too.

[BigWigRah]

thanks Velvet, i'll definitely keep those in mind next time I walk to the bookshop. Still thinking about TfWD though.

I actually checked out an episode of the Watership Down animated series called "Bigwig's Way." It has good and bad points, but I don't think I can watch it. Sure, the voice acting is good, the score is well written with motives from Bright Eyes, and the animation doesn't look bad. The major flaws I see are that the characters look wrong, especially Bigwig, who looks just...silly. Also the atmosphere seems really toned down and the plot doesn't do anything interesting. It follows the book more or less, but it has a lot of extra filler that's pretty typical in nature. I've only seen one and a half episodes, but I just couldn't get it. Despite the good voice actors, the dialog is pretty horrible and unconvincing. Don't know if any of you guys liked it, or if the series improves at certain seasons.

[The Man]

In terms of cuteness it blows Animal Farm out of the water. Don't have much to say for the movie itself since I understand it.

[GamemasterAnthony]

This was actually the first PG rated cartoon I've ever seen...and it had a great story to boot! That story about Frith and the creation of rabbits in the beginning was also a rather intriguing way to begin too.

[Velvet D'Coolette]

Definitely. Pretty art style, too.

[BigWigRah]

me again! I found a few cool things WD related that I felt should be shared here.

http://www.loganberr.../bnb/index.html
this website has some nice stuff on it. Apparently this "Loganberry" fellow took the Lapine language model and formed a basic language out of it. Some of the linguistics don't make a lot of sense at times to me, having studied another language, but it's pretty cool. Amazing what people do in their free time. Loganberry also posted a nice photo album of his journey to Watership down, with a telling of his adventures that accompanies the photos. There's also a few extra sections with writings, reviews, and other random fan stuff.

and just for kicks

a clip from "League of Gentlemen" I found when reading about "Bright Eyes." It's some British sketch comedy I don't really know about, but I liked this clip and a few others I saw. Only the Brits can take the piss out of anything.

[BigWigRah]

Hello everyone. I am reviving this thread, as I have just finished reading "Tales from Watership Down," and feel that things need to be said about it, as Velvet and others have expressed curiosity. I will attempt to explain with as few spoilers as possible.

"Tales from Watership Down" was written 24 years after the 1972 classic. Richard Adams is not the type of writer who dismisses his past works when moving on to new projects, and his interviews would indicate that he derives a great deal of pleasure in knowing he will leave such a legacy behind. In 1996, Mr. Adams published a long awaited sequel to once again feature the beloved rabbits, although not the type of sequel most people would have thought. TFWD is not so much a sequel to the original, but rather a collection of short stories revolving around the rabbit folklore, and the adventures of the Watership Rabbits following Woundwort's "demise."

Part I contains five stories following the adventures of El-ahrairah (told by Dandelion or others), as he travels to various mystical lands to acquire a boon to protect and save his people. Two of these stories are mentioned in passing in the original novel (the fox and the water is mentioned during Bigwig's fight with Woundwort for instance). These opening five tales largely resemble the lighthearted stories told in Watership Down. In the original novel, these stories were designed largely as comic relief following the dark moments in their journey. Standing by themselves, these stories don't hold up as well in my opinion, although that is not to say that they are poorly written. If you enjoyed the El-ahrairah stories from the original novel, you will like these as well. Two additional stories are told by the watership rabbits at the end of part one, although these are largely designed as nonsensical humor that is enjoyed by the rabbits.

Part II consists of four stories following the adventures of El-ahrairah and Rabscuttle on their way home from the stone warren of the Black Rabbit of Inle. These stories are largely rooted in the "real" world, and have a grim atmosphere not found in part 1. El-ahrairah's is not recognized by the other rabbits as their lord, as his face is still mutilated by the black rabbit's curse. These dark tales take a hard term, and can even be downright depressing at times. Given the serious atmosphere rooted in the natural world, these tales were a welcome departure from part I.

Of course, Part III places us where we wanted to be all along, back among the likes of Hazel-rah, Bigwig, Fiver, and the rabbits of Watership Down. The adventure picks up right at the end of the final chapter, but BEFORE the events of the epilogue. Following the death of Woundwort, Watership Down is now tasked with taking in the newly freed and surrendered Efrafans. As stated in the previous novel, Campion is now the newly elected ruler of Efrafa, and plans are laid out to build a new warren between Watership and Efrafa under the direction of Groundsel. As the rabbits of both warrens prepare an expedition to build a joint warren, things quickly go wrong as a new mystery unfolds surrounding a newcomer. For those who are anxious after part I and II to hear more of the rabbits you grew to love in the original, part III presents a collection of eight interconnected stories written in the beautiful style that only Richard Adams can deliver. Part III is definitely a return to the familiar language and style presented in the original, albeit not quite in the same way.

As for my overall review, this collection gets a thumbs up from me, although it is admittedly a mixed bag. The stories gradually ratchet up and become more enjoyable as the novel progresses, moving from a world of comic beauty to dark reality. I will admit, I enjoyed part III the most, as I fell in love with the Watership rabbits after reading the original. I LIKE the El-ahrairah stories as they are placed in the original novel following a tense moment, but not so much when they are standing alone in succession. Part II acts as a bridge into part III, showing a darker side to the rabbit folklore not as prevalent in the original story.

Final word...

If you can't tell by my handle, I looovveee me some Watership Down. If you have similar feelings towards the original novel, this is a must buy. At 330 pages shoved into a small paperback, this collection can be read on a lazy Sunday if you aren't doing much else during the day. Is this book as good as the original Watership Down? of course not, as it's not the same type of epic story. What I can say is that is a very nice supplemental to the original story, and a great treat for those in need of diversion (which is the whole point of a good fiction novel anyway).

take care everyone -BigWigRah

[Bakuda]

Watership Down is a GREAT story! I first read the book about a month ago and then watched the movie. Excellent story. If you loved the 1978 film I would highly suggest reading the book. Richard Adams goes into so much more depth than the movie can. Excellent book...excellent film!

Hello everyone. I am reviving this thread, as I have just finished reading "Tales from Watership Down," and feel that things need to be said about it, as Velvet and others have expressed curiosity. I will attempt to explain with as few spoilers as possible.

I've been intending to get ahold of that book and read it...have yet to. Now that you've reminded me of it I'll have to go and get it.