120 replies to this topic

[Mithrandir]

[quote="FreakyFilmFan4ever":73es82rc][quote="Miko":73es82rc]That's called "empty writing." You slapped on roles like "brother", "buddy" and antagonizer doesn't have to be a role given to two people with a bond that's very strong. Problem is, you've forgotten to add the substance that'd make those roles beleivable. Why does Sonic value highly Tails as a person? Saying he's the brother figure ignores the fact you're thinking backwards. The basis for valuing the person comes before the role is established.[/quote][/quote]

I don't know if it would be called empty writing, and if it was, I don't know if empty writing isn't all that bad, because the same "slapped-on-roles" of brotherliness were what won The Lord of the Rings an Oscar for "Best Adapted Screenplay" (just look at the "brother" relationship of Sam and Frodo, Legolas and Gimly, and the cliched "evil-step-mother/father" relationship of Sarumon and Woremtoung).

There are cliched roles because that's what is reflected in life, and therefore are commonly used in storytelling. Just look at how well the cliched premise of a poor single dad worked out for "Pursuit of Happiness". The trick is to write them so they don't seemed "slapped on". That's the hard part. Jackson and his team did it well for LOTR, and there are other talented writers who could do it as well for a Sonic movie, whatever characters are used to tell the story.[/quote]

The problem at this point is that, I hate to say it, but Miko's really stretching to find excuses here to keep up the crusade.

There's no "thinking backwards" on why Sonic views Tails as a little brother; it's already established, and there's nothing wrong with having an established starting point and then building off of that.

Wasting on time on why Sonic views Tails that way takes away from important narrative time (though I suppose one could always use a flashback) that would be needed in a movie that would likely need to clock in at under 2 hours.

But you're right dude; the idea is that you take an established relationship and build on it. Sonic views Tails as a little brother - that can be an established truth, but their actions and interactions can reflect that and possibly change as the story progresses. In Lord of the Rings, right off the bat, Sam is steadfastly loyal to Frodo; there's no real reason given, no backstory needed (besides "I'm his gardener!"), yet the moment Sam says "I can carry you!" is probably the most emotionally charged scene in the entire trilogy.

And, I'll say it again: in making a Sonic movie, you'd be talking about source material that, no matter what some people wish, would be automatically aimed at a younger audience (though it could obviously be accessible to an older set, as well). You'd also be taking source material that inherently lends itself to action and adventure.

In other words: while any adventure story worth its salt involves character development and meaningful interactions between certain characters, we're not exactly aiming to write Citizen Kane (with Robotnik as Orson Welles, obviously), or any other in-depth character study here.

A movie with Sonic as it's main character would likely be 90-115 minutes in length. There'd be a lot of places to introduce, history to cover, and adventure and action sequences involved. Turning the movie into "I, Hedgehog" would make it less accessible not only to kids, but to many, many other people as well.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

I wish I had seen this topic sooner! What I would like in this movie is two things. 1) A movie based on the early games such as 1,2,3,Sonic&Knuckles. It would have to do its best to fit the games while also adding some plot. 2) A based on SatAM. Like idea one, it would try to fit the cartoon as best it can. Come to think of it, might be nice to start the story off with Sally and her dad having a sweet moment...but then..this is SONIC..So maybe one where Sonic and the rest are playing or something. And then they see something far off. This urges the coupe to happen and the next scene begins with Sonic (now 16) waking up as if he dreamed the last scene. Could work.

I always imagined it where Robotnic would take over when Sonic was already 16 years old because I didn't want to have a clumsy 10 year gap in the story where Sonic did nothing to retaliate, even though that's not how it was in BTTP...

But the idea of opening with a dream sequence makes me want to go back to the idea of the take-over happening when Sonic was age 5. Now I'm gonna be up all night trying to decide which is best. (Deciding between two ideas that you like is never a bad situation. )

And, I'll say it again: in making a Sonic movie, you'd be talking about source material that, no matter what some people wish, would be automatically aimed at a younger audience (though it could obviously be accessible to an older set, as well). You'd also be taking source material that inherently lends itself to action and adventure.

In other words: while any adventure story worth its salt involves character development and meaningful interactions between certain characters, we're not exactly aiming to write Citizen Kane (with Robotnik as Orson Welles, obviously), or any other in-depth character study here.

A movie with Sonic as it's main character would likely be 90-115 minutes in length. There'd be a lot of places to introduce, history to cover, and adventure and action sequences involved. Turning the movie into "I, Hedgehog" would make it less accessible not only to kids, but to many, many other people as well.

Very true. Although I think there could be a happy middle ground. Not that I'd even want to see an "I, Hedgehog" Sonic film. But there needs to be elements in there that both kids and adults can enjoy and get excited about.

Just for the heck of it I "test screened" SatAM Sonic episodes to the kids I supervise at the church I attend to see what they though of SatAM (it's my job to watch them, it's how I pay off film school). Not only did they like the episodes I showed them, but they said it was better than "Sonic X" (I thought it would have been obvious, but I needed to be sure). They even got mad when "Doomsday" ended and I couldn't give them anymore episodes to watch.

But when they were done I asked them what kinds of movies their parents would let the watch. From that discussion I figured a "PG" rated Sonic film would be best. Something like a "Star Wars" within terms of the intensity of the action, violence, and thematic story elements. All of "Star Wars was rated "PG" except for "Revenge of the Sith", which was "PG-13", and surprisingly all these kids were allowed to see all the movies EXCEPT "Revenge".

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

Wow, they really liked it? WOW. Thats so cool on SO many levels!

I know! That means SatAM is still marketable! And that kids WANT something more intelligent/more serious than "Sonic X". (These were their words, not mine.)

[acstrife]

Get them the Sonic SATAM DVD from the shout factory for Christmas!

[Mithrandir]

I think we've had a few people on here before who've said that the little cousins, siblings, etc. who they've shown SatAM to have often really enjoyed it.

It has all the trappings of a vintage Saturday morning cartoon, and then some, so it'd be nice if some high up suits realized it was still marketable.

FreakyFilm, I do agree on the "middle ground" approach, but its always a fine line to tread. In a one-shot movie, you've go to pick your spots, as I'm sure you're aware, to work in character progression without it completely halting the action and story. It's why it's hard to assign a deep, impactful, meaningful relationship between every character in a given movie/story; there simply isn't the time, and any attempt to make there be time will likely result in a detriment towards the story's narrative arc.

In a Sonic movie with SatAM influences, that's a big reason why I'd try to keep it narrow when it comes to which of Sonic's friendships and relationships it'd really delve into. His fraternal relationship with Tails could be easily depicted (I wish Ben Hurst's ideas for expanding the scene of him and Tails training in Drood Henge would've made the cut for the episode), as could his adversarial-yet-flirtatious banter with Sally. Maybe I'd introduce Knuckles and tease the sort of "alter ego" relationship he and Sonic share (i.e. many similarities as individuals, but a few key, stark differences that make them very different), since Knuckles is such a popular character, but I wouldn't go nuts with it.

Meanwhile, a writer could work in material for the other characters as well, but in different ways - a storyline for Antoine that involves him "manning up", for example. Wouldn't have to go overboard, and it would fit his character nicely.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

FreakyFilm, I do agree on the "middle ground" approach, but its always a fine line to tread. In a one-shot movie, you've go to pick your spots, as I'm sure you're aware, to work in character progression without it completely halting the action and story. It's why it's hard to assign a deep, impactful, meaningful relationship between every character in a given movie/story; there simply isn't the time, and any attempt to make there be time will likely result in a detriment towards the story's narrative arc.

In a Sonic movie with SatAM influences, that's a big reason why I'd try to keep it narrow when it comes to which of Sonic's friendships and relationships it'd really delve into. His fraternal relationship with Tails could be easily depicted (I wish Ben Hurst's ideas for expanding the scene of him and Tails training in Drood Henge would've made the cut for the episode), as could his adversarial-yet-flirtatious banter with Sally. Maybe I'd introduce Knuckles and tease the sort of "alter ego" relationship he and Sonic share (i.e. many similarities as individuals, but a few key, stark differences that make them very different), since Knuckles is such a popular character, but I wouldn't go nuts with it.

Meanwhile, a writer could work in material for the other characters as well, but in different ways - a storyline for Antoine that involves him "manning up", for example. Wouldn't have to go overboard, and it would fit his character nicely.

VERY fine line... I think the example in "Drood Henge" you mentioned demonstrates just how fine a line that is. They simply didn't have enough time for that scene in a 28-minutes episode. And even if they did, it would kinda slow the pacing of the story in an episode THAT short, whereas it wouldn't in a 90-115 minute movie.

I think a trilogy would be cool. But you might be right in that there would probably be only one shot at making a Sonic movie. The first would be written so that if the studio didn't want to do anymore, the story is still complete as one movie. But if the studio asks for sequels, there's still room for them. Kinda like the original "Star Wars" trilogy. (I was about to say the "Matrix" trilogy, but the sequels would have to be better than that. )

Luke's character arced well in the "New Hope", so there wasn't really a need to make two more. But then arced even further in "Empire" and "Jedi", as did the rest of the characters. The same writing philosophy would be needed for Sonic, so probable sequels wouldn't suck so much. It's boring when the characters have already fully arced in the first film, and then never arc further in the second film. I think that's part of what contributes to a bad sequel.

[Gojira007]

I think I'm one of, if not the only person here who wouldn't go the SatAM route.

I hope you're not surprised by this fact.

That said, I can actually understand that. Part of me would indeed want to use SatAM as the model, but another part of me would want something based off the Genesis Games, personally.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

I think I'm one of, if not the only person here who wouldn't go the SatAM route-- or at least, not as a first option. Granted, there can be game adaptations, but if I did a Sonic film I think I'd make Sonic a part-time, freelance hero, like how Kim Possible was in her series. That way he can be about action while maintaining some degree of heart. This might also allow Sonic and the other chosen characters room for expanded relatability if done right. Sonic's engaging in things that kids and even some adults are probably doing at his age; while he can still be "cool", he can potentially be more connected with viewers, instead of being simply a glamourized asthetic or role model for people to look up to.

Well, I see where you're coming from. The constant recycling of an old "Sonic Universe" can become redundant. And judging what kids actually WANT to see is giving me more trouble than it's worth. Talking with kids within the ages who would REALLY want to see a Sonic movie, they also was Shadow, Silver, and the whole slew of other characters. WAY too much material to work with. I can't see Shadow being in a movie simply because his enormously complicated back-story would de-rail the entire plot for any kind of Sonic movie.

Having Sonic as a freelance hero is a very interesting concept. There's much moral conflict already worked in there just by the idea itself. Would Sonic save you if you couldn't pay? Does he become greedy? Are there others with powers who are freelance, but don't use their powers for good? On what kind of missions does Sonic draw the line? Very many interesting moral issues could be explored through a movie like that.

I think a real sense of morals and ethics is the basic thing I would like to see in ANY Sonic film. Very few kid's programming have morals in them. If they do, then it's watered down to retain "political correctness". The villain's motives and practices have become so censored that there is no more real evil. Without evil so watered down, there is not any real difference between that and the good the hero stands for. Hence why "Sonic X" has become more or less of a game. "Dr. Eggman" doesn't do anything too unethical (except once or twice), so there's no real reason for Sonic to oppose him (except once or twice). I mean, you don't want to scare kids, so you don't show all of it. But you do want them to get that this is evil, and this other thing is good.

Both SatAM and the freelance hero idea do very well to open itself up to those kinds of stories. But I kinda see the freelance hero idea suiting a TV series better. That way Sonic could meet a lot more interesting villains and citizens with different motives for a freelance hero.

[The Man]

Then to go to the extreme side why not make an episode far into the SatAM Universe with a plot that's never known. At that point Sonic and Sally will know each other so well they'll never be off key with what they do to win in any situation.

Not god-like powers but years of experience and expertise. A more mature setting like Superman and Lois Lane(sp), Trinity and Neo? Sonic, Sally, and the FF's are not the most experienced at 16ish age. Doomsday is a huge victory but Ben did say he really wanted Season 3 and 4 to sizzle. I did sneak into that conversation.

But this is a sudden idea that should exemplify their actions not just their purpose. I don't know where I'm going with this but I hope I can contribute.

Flashback, time-travel, flashforward, early on, late on, even when dead, and others. All of those elements have been used before. Is a Sonic movie worthy of something that leaps beyond the imagination and expectations of the fans? Can we concieve such an idea. Sorry to hold you to such a high standard at the end here but I think it's what we're all asking.

Edit-to elaborate people generally expect to have ups and downs with relationships as well as the plot and theme. Is there something we don't expect waiting for the FF's. One idea is to make it all a little test by the King whose safe in the real world in the Void while the FF's fight the war on the outside.

That's kinda unoriginal because it would remind me of Stargate and/or a dream sequence. What was kinda surprising was the twist at the end of the "Sixth Sense".

Many discussions, fan-fics, and current production like game and comics might have the basics covered imo. Is there any more room for growth/originality after all this time? I mean originial ideas not only action-packed and/or well-written. That stuff is good but we might want to go some more out of our way for this movie.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

I actually feel as though we should go into the origins of Sonic and Robotnik, before turning the characters so experienced that Sonic and Sally never miss a beat. There are folks out there who would watch the movie that weren't exactly fans of Sonic or SatAM, so it would need to be established how this all got started. Then through trial and error, Sonic and Sally would finally get to the point where they've grown strong enough as a team to take down Robotnik. This is why I've been messing around with the idea of a movie trilogy. This would give the characters enough time to mature, and for the plot to thicken into interesting areas of Mobius and other worlds/dimensions (the Void?).

Speaking of thickening the plot, what do you guys think of adding new "anti-hero"/villain characters as the trilogy advances? (Like Ari, Lupe, Naugus, Shadow, Silver, or Metal Sonic?) These characters would NOT be used as an excuse not to develop the main characters, but just used to throw a spoke in the wheels of either the Freedom Fighters Robotnik as they both try to achieve their goals.

[Mithrandir]

Your ideas sure as heck aren't bad, but it also all depends on HOW you want to present the flick.

For example, I don't think it'd be terrible start with the Freedom Fighters as an established team that already work well together, but I also agree that there would be some strong emotional possibilities with having to open the film establishing how a war started, and why Sonic and his friends have to live like they do. There's a reason so many people like the Blast to the Past episodes; you finally get the background on why things are the way they are. If the film started more at the very beginning, we'd have to witness the growing pains they'd go through in becoming a more cohesive team, which could be fun. I think both ideas work, it would just be up to the writer of such a film to choose which one they preferred.

As for more characters, I'd be careful. There's already a big number of Freedom Fighters, relatively speaking, and you'd hope they could get the majority of the focus. While other characters could have cameos, even the best intentioned writers can get sidetracked if they introduce too many new faces that need some explaining for where the heck they came from.

Like I said, were I the guy in charge, I think the one non-Freedom Fighter/"anti-hero" character I'd bring in would be Knuckles, since he's already popular, and by his nature he's shown as being a mysterious figure, ergo, in writing him, I wouldn't have to waste too much time delving into where he came from.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

I agree. Seeing how the war got started would bring some emotional possibilities. But that would have to be at the beginning at the movie for me, since I always felt flashbacks in the middle of the movie slow the pacing of the storytelling tremendously. Unless it would be a mysterious/suspense film, which I don't see happening.

Knuckles being in the movie would seem natural for me. It would attract the Sonic fans not knowledgeable in the Freedom Fighters to the theaters, and a Sonic movie without Knuckles would seem to be lacking to a LOT of people. But I think there would also need to be an awareness NOT to overuse the power of the Chaos Emeralds, since the addition of Knuckles would naturally lead to the introduction of at least the Master Chaos Emerald.

I'd like to see Metal Sonic at least, especially since he would require the least amount of back story out of the SEGA extras. I also think he would make an excellent villain for Sonic to defeat if handled well. But the final battle would need to be against Sonic and Robotnik.

...At the same time, we don't want TOO many villains, as that was what most people considered the wrong turn in "Spiderman 3".

[The Man]

Who gets to write the script? This topic has reaffirmed members old and new positions on ideas, however, you really have to keep in mind what Sonic board you post at?

That no matter what universe you choose and/or characters to exclude/include you'll alienate someone anyway. So obviously we do need to consider Knuckles, Metal-Sonic, maybe others if we want 'more' fans. Although there's enough in the original seasons of SatAM to use we do need the ticket sales to keep producing a movie.

Also we'll simply need mature and serious stuff as well as humor and some jokes. And everyone in the universes appears pretty elite so maybe you could add someone normal and/or find a way to alter the personalities of the known characters?

Maybe show some tough FF tests for Tails, new recruits, and others to show what it really takes to work along side Sonic and Sally. They must appear stronger than everyone else. If we want to understand the struggle we need to grow and learn with them.

[Chaosmaster8753]

I'm trying to write my own Sonic story based off of the original Sonic the Hedgehog w/elements from other Sonic media. Here are my current ideas:
- The planet will NOT have a name
- Tails, Amy, Metal Sonic, and Knuckles will appear in the sequels I have planned
- Snively will be Robotnik/Eggman's lackey
- Badniks, SWATbots, and Eggbots are the groups of robots built by Robotnik/Eggman
- Sonic starts off as "Nicky Parlouzer" (like in the manga), and he becomes "Sonic the Hedgehog" after creating a Sonic Boom (promotional comic homage)
- Robotnik starts out as a kindly scientist (I'm not using the "Ovi Kintobor" thing, it's kinda stupid), and the negative energy of the Chaos Emeralds awakens his inner dark side (kinda like the promotional comic)
- Sonic comes up w/the name "Eggman" as an insult (homage to Sonic Adventure)
- Sonic will change into Super Sonic
- The Freedom Fighters are formed after Sonic rescues them from Eggman
I'll post more ideas later

[DerekHedgehog87]

I was thinking of making a fan film with a plot similar to SatAM & S3&K with references to the cartoon & the games.

Not sure if I can explain the plot & everything since everyone was posting on their ideas for a Sonic movie.