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@  furrykef : (25 July 2015 - 03:35 AM)

When was that? Depending on when it was, it might have been a DNS issue. Those should be gone now.

@  Uncle Ben : (24 July 2015 - 10:10 PM)

on*

@  Uncle Ben : (24 July 2015 - 10:10 PM)

Red said he couldnt get one

@  furrykef : (24 July 2015 - 11:25 AM)

Also I still have to figure out how to set up our e-mail accounts on the new host.

@  furrykef : (24 July 2015 - 08:19 AM)

As soon as I figure out how to restore it. Sorry, I know I said it'd be done by now, but I didn't expect to have to put up with this DNS crap and other issues that popped up.

@  Uncle Ben : (24 July 2015 - 07:56 AM)

So when's the black theme coming back??

@  Uncle Ben : (24 July 2015 - 07:56 AM)

"Should"

@  furrykef : (24 July 2015 - 07:27 AM)

That DNS took longer to propagate properly than I thought it would. *Now* we should be back for good, though.

@  furrykef : (23 July 2015 - 08:48 PM)

Or it might be because Bluehost *finally* got around to that server wipe (one week after we'd asked for it) and that wiped out our DNS settings. I'm not sure which and I don't really care. In any case, we've severed our last ties with Bluehost, so this will not happen again.

@  furrykef : (23 July 2015 - 08:08 PM)

Looks like Bluehost yanked our DNS since our hosting account expired. That's why the site went down a while ago. But as you can see, it's fixed now.

@  Misk : (23 July 2015 - 04:55 PM)

No, they do not.

@  furrykef : (23 July 2015 - 04:27 AM)

The goggles do nothing?

@  Misk : (22 July 2015 - 05:50 PM)

My eyes.

@  furrykef : (22 July 2015 - 12:24 PM)

Looks like forum uploads might have been broken since last night. That should be fixed now too.

@  furrykef : (22 July 2015 - 01:33 AM)

Heh, whoops! Server went down for a few mins when I borked the config. Looks like it's back up now.

@  Uncle Ben : (21 July 2015 - 09:09 PM)

It looked like a napkin

@  ILOVEVHS : (21 July 2015 - 09:04 PM)

Fan-fuckin-tastic.

@  furrykef : (21 July 2015 - 08:25 PM)

As for the beaver picture while the forum was down, I think Tim drew it. On a napkin.

@  furrykef : (21 July 2015 - 08:24 PM)

No kiddin' about that "Finally!", Shadow. I am *so mad* at Bluehost for never responding to our support ticket. I submitted it early Friday morning and they *still* haven't answered it!

@  Uncle Ben : (21 July 2015 - 06:37 PM)

Maybe he did that himself


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Post your Sonic movie ideas


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#61 Morgan

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 03:56 PM

QUOTE ("Viuely":102b39md)
I'm double posting because I didn't want to make a tl;dr with the last one. If that's a problem just let me know later.
EDIT: Nevermind, ha ha

QUOTE
What I am asking (not just to appease others and to keep a flame war from breaking out, but also to make it where you can state what you feel as well) is that when you make a point, actually pick something out of the source material (in this instance, the show or comic, some detail *in specific*) that backs up your claim. A white horse may be white, but how do we know it is if we don't see it? Let me also say in a more specific manner, that cannot be misconstrued, of what I mean of taking HARD evidence from the source material.


My issue with what you're asking MsFire is...you haven't specifically narrowed down what it is you want her to back up with supposed evidence. "Back it up" is far too broad a claim, especially when (no offense) nobody knows what's going on in your head to know what's unclear for you. More importantly, what may be unclear to you may be crystal for somebody else.


I have already stated (in the paragraph just below the one you quoted from me) how she and others can back up their claim. This goes for any claim made.

#62 fishtheimpaler

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 03:56 PM

Everyone's having a fight about whether there should be a presumption that Sally Acorn is in or out because there aren't every many conclusive ways to prove that a character is absolutely good or bad for the story, given that the character can be shaded so many different ways and placed into so many different possible stories. Whoever needs to prove that Sally gets in/out is going to lose.

The most recent argument makes no sense, in that Sonic's "recklessness" need not be his only character flaw. If it is, I fail to see how moving Sally out of the picture somehow lets everyone else take up the slack--who's going to put the brakes on him now? How do all the other characters use their personality to contribute to putting the brakes on Sonic? I guess Bunnie would be the most likely candidate, being all aw shucks down to earth and with a forceful personality and all. But Rotor is diffident, Antoine too easily ignored, and Tails adoring. I guess we could always bring Mina in and they could fall in love, but what sense does that make?

If other characters aren't getting interesting storylines, the problem is that the writers aren't thinking up interesting ways to use them or elaborate on their personalities. The problem is not that "none of the other characters get to be Sally," unless the character is Mina, and the problem is that Sonic doesn't fall in love with her.

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 04:40 PM

QUOTE ("MsFire":1gnpoytm)
QUOTE ("Viuely":1gnpoytm)
I'm double posting because I didn't want to make a tl;dr with the last one. If that's a problem just let me know later.
EDIT: Nevermind, ha ha

QUOTE
What I am asking (not just to appease others and to keep a flame war from breaking out, but also to make it where you can state what you feel as well) is that when you make a point, actually pick something out of the source material (in this instance, the show or comic, some detail *in specific*) that backs up your claim. A white horse may be white, but how do we know it is if we don't see it? Let me also say in a more specific manner, that cannot be misconstrued, of what I mean of taking HARD evidence from the source material.


My issue with what you're asking MsFire is...you haven't specifically narrowed down what it is you want her to back up with supposed evidence. "Back it up" is far too broad a claim, especially when (no offense) nobody knows what's going on in your head to know what's unclear for you. More importantly, what may be unclear to you may be crystal for somebody else.


I have already stated (in the paragraph just below the one you quoted from me) how she and others can back up their claim. This goes for any claim made.


o__o You misinterpreted what I was asking MsFire. You gave us an example of how to back something up, but you didn't tell us what information Miko stated needed more backing.

QUOTE
The most recent argument makes no sense, in that Sonic's "recklessness" need not be his only character flaw.


Woah...dude WHAT? That is NOT what she was saying at ALL. She was basically trying to say that instead of having one character that addresses recklessness, the physical manifestation of any flaw, you should have the other characters address very particular types of flaws in Sonic's character. That way they all will have something to contribute.

QUOTE
I fail to see how moving Sally out of the picture somehow lets everyone else take up the slack--who's going to put the brakes on him now? How do all the other characters use their personality to contribute to putting the brakes on Sonic?


Because their personalities put the brakes on specifically different flaws Sonic has depending on the variety of strong points in their different characters. The role isn't supposed to go to one specific character. If you were to divide the roles amongst the other characters with Sally still there, Sally's role would be cheapened because she was supposed to be a catch-all for Sonic's flaws, as evidenced by the fact she attacks recklessness, the very manifestation of physical flaws.

#64 fishtheimpaler

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 04:53 PM

I don't get where recklessness (the conscious disregard of a known risk; a behavioral quality with a mental component) is the "physical manifestation" of all possible flaws. I don't even get where its particularly physical as opposed to behavioral. Your continued insistence on this just my mind. Are you using "recklessness" in some broader sense to mean something like "undesirable behavior"?

If Sally solves all of Sonic's problems and has all possible interesting character interactions with him because her calculating, cautious mind is a foil to his recklessness, then people aren't thinking very hard about Sonic's personality, or about anything else.

#65 Valerie Valens

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 06:16 PM

I think this conversation is confusing the context a little. It's blurring the line between what traits make a great character for storywriting and what traits make a person desireable IRL. These are two very separate things here that shouldn't be confused with each other.

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#66 Anaesthesia

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 07:02 PM

This is the wank that never ends
Yes it goes on and on, my friend
Some people started reading this
Not knowing what was said
While shipping pseudo-intellects
Kept schlicking o'er the thread

This is the wank that never ends
Yes it goes on and on, my friend
Some people started reading this
Not knowing what was said
While shipping pseudo-intellects
Kept schlicking o'er the thread

Ad infinitum


You can have in-depth character studies, origin stories, and political games in a Sonic movie (or, heaven forbid, a trilogy) if you really, really wanted to, but at the end of the day, you still have a silly story about a brightly colored mammal who's saving the world by harrassing some fat guy. It should have good writing, yes, but I wouldn't expect it to be on par with, say, The Godfather.
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#67 fishtheimpaler

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 07:12 PM

Screw you, it's fun

#68 FreakyFilmFan4ever

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 08:23 PM

To be honest, this whole argument over SonSal has been resolved as irresolvable. No one here knows exactly how the relationship would work out because we don't have a clue as to what kind of creative writing would be done better the plot, story, or the characters.

Let's just discuss what we think would be cool to see in a Sonic movie. Since each character in a film need to have a goal in the film's duration, a plot needs to be set before character arches (how characters think/feel and change their thoughts/feelings in the movie) can be established. And from discussing what a movie SHOULD have, what it SHOULDN'T have will naturally become apparent.
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#69 Guest_Miko_*

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 06:30 AM

QUOTE
I don't get where recklessness (the conscious disregard of a known risk; a behavioral quality with a mental component) is the "physical manifestation" of all possible flaws.


If you have a quality about your character that would prove troublesome in a given context, and you without thinking (or not taking the time to think seriously enough about the consequence), allow that quality to emerge then that's a display of acting on impulse/recklessness. Flaws are able emerge due to impulsiveness/recklessness but impulsiveness/recklessness doesn't detail specific flaws.

QUOTE
No one here knows exactly how the relationship would work out because we don't have a clue as to what kind of creative writing would be done better the plot, story, or the characters.


But we do know how Sonic and Sally's relationship opperates (romantic or not). Sonic is "reckless" (as everyone is) and Sally balances that recklessness. Making it work another way strips the relationship of it's identity. BTW for the people howling "Mina Mongoose", I'd like to say that this isn't a love interest issue. I'm evalutating the mechanics of the relationship and how maladaptive it is isn't at all dependent on Sally being a love interest to Sonic. If you promised me Sally wouldn't be Sonic's love interest for any part of the trilogy, I'd still be against her in it.

#70 fishtheimpaler

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 07:44 AM

You are defining recklessness way too broadly. Sonic is reckless in that he doesn't care about battle risk and believes he can conquer it with his raw physical talent whenever it presents itself, whatever form it takes. That is a very specific aspect of his character; Sally chastens him and insists that he needs more than physicality to survive the war, yet is obviously attracted to his physicality. You're telling me that Sonic can't have any more aspects to his personality than that? He can't be additionally cruel (toward Antoine), jealous (of Griff), too trusting of superficial personality traits (with Ari)? You're saying that we couldn't have used other characters in these situations to develop more interesting plots that didn't overuse Sally? (Would it have been neat if Yuck Gross Girls! Tails were more involved in "Subsonic," or if Antoine's cowardice blended into caution in "Game Guy"?) You're saying that we couldn't elaborate on Sonic's personality even further?

Not everyone is too reckless. I interact every day only with people who trade their entire lives away for job security at a job they don't like for money they can't enjoy. It's great!

#71 Mithrandir

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 03:47 PM

Why, God? Why must we devolve into SonSal arguments every damn time?

Here's all I'll say: I don't get the argument that says Sally is the only one who can have any meaningful interaction with Sonic, or the one that says that the only way Sonic can meaningfully interact with people is through his "flaws". That's the boogie-man word every time this argument pops up, "flaws", as if a character/person/whoever is nothing besides the sum total of their most negative personality traits.

If you make a character who can't interact with people beyond their "flaws", then you're a lazy, incompetent writer. Sonic can have Sally be his foil, but still be Tails' big brother figure, Rotor's best buddy, Antoine's antagonizer, etc. That's called "writing".

And, at the end of the day, it's all reading way, WAY too deep into a cartoon show that only had 26 episodes, and not enough time to flesh out every inter-character relationship before it's plug got pulled. So chill out.

As for the flick ideas: I like the idea that Sonic was basically born with his speed. It means that, from a young age, he had a reason to view himself as something special, to have an ego, etc.

It also means that he's automatically thrust into the role of "hero", which he embraces, but that, as others have suggested already, it could mean that, as the movie progressed, he'd have to realize that just acting the part of hero, and just having the special gifts of a hero, aren't enough, and that he needs to grow a little to protect his friends and home.

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 04:01 PM

QUOTE ("Mithrandir":2t0sbeqy)
And, at the end of the day, it's all reading way, WAY too deep into a cartoon show that only had 26 episodes, and not enough time to flesh out every inter-character relationship before it's plug got pulled. So chill out.

Hear hear!

#73 Gojira007

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 04:12 PM

I'm curious as to why everyone keeps classifying this as a "SonSal" discussion. I mean, yes, their relationship's been brought up, but the Romantic aspect of it has barely been mentionend.
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#74 FreakyFilmFan4ever

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 08:37 PM

QUOTE ("Gojira007":3idu55h5)
I'm curious as to why everyone keeps classifying this as a "SonSal" discussion. I mean, yes, their relationship's been brought up, but the Romantic aspect of it has barely been mentionend.


I don't even know why we've stopped talking about movie ideas to begin with...

QUOTE ("Mithrandir":3idu55h5)
Why, God? Why must we devolve into SonSal arguments every damn time?

Here's all I'll say: I don't get the argument that says Sally is the only one who can have any meaningful interaction with Sonic, or the one that says that the only way Sonic can meaningfully interact with people is through his "flaws". That's the boogie-man word every time this argument pops up, "flaws", as if a character/person/whoever is nothing besides the sum total of their most negative personality traits.

If you make a character who can't interact with people beyond their "flaws", then you're a lazy, incompetent writer. Sonic can have Sally be his foil, but still be Tails' big brother figure, Rotor's best buddy, Antoine's antagonizer, etc. That's called "writing".

And, at the end of the day, it's all reading way, WAY too deep into a cartoon show that only had 26 episodes, and not enough time to flesh out every inter-character relationship before it's plug got pulled. So chill out.

As for the flick ideas: I like the idea that Sonic was basically born with his speed. It means that, from a young age, he had a reason to view himself as something special, to have an ego, etc.

It also means that he's automatically thrust into the role of "hero", which he embraces, but that, as others have suggested already, it could mean that, as the movie progressed, he'd have to realize that just acting the part of hero, and just having the special gifts of a hero, aren't enough, and that he needs to grow a little to protect his friends and home.


We probably would have eventually seen that in SatAM if it wasn't canceled. It's always entertaining to see a character perusing what he WANTS (playing the hero), but then realizing that there's something more important that he NEEDS (realizing the responsibility that would entail, and excepting help from his friends). These could all be very strong points that would give the movie more character depth, and make the movie's story less of an excuse to see special effects and stuff blow up.

QUOTE ("Anaesthesia":3idu55h5)
You can have in-depth character studies, origin stories, and political games in a Sonic movie (or, heaven forbid, a trilogy) if you really, really wanted to, but at the end of the day, you still have a silly story about a brightly colored mammal who's saving the world by harrassing some fat guy. It should have good writing, yes, but I wouldn't expect it to be on par with, say, The Godfather.


LOL! I actually find that to be an amusing wake-up call for me.

I kinda like to think the movie would be about something else (the value of freedom, justice, ect.). A brightly colored mammal harassing some fat guy is just kinda what ends up happening.
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#75 Guest_Miko_*

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 05:00 AM

You are defining recklessness way too broadly.


Recklessness is the expression of flaws. Of course it's going to encompass a broad spectrum of them, that's the problem.

Sonic is reckless in that he doesn't care about battle risk and believes he can conquer it with his raw physical talent whenever it presents itself, whatever form it takes.


Understanding the risks, weighing out your options, and when no other option is known fighting in the name your fellow man qualifies as alturism. Recklessness is doing something while not being aware of the risk. This as I said before encompasses all sorts of flaws so long as they're expressed. But anyways, people do not normally think 24/7 about their flaws, they can't be very functional that way. So we have faith that for some reason or another we'll make it through. That doesn't mean if we're about to make a mistake we won't listen to others. But it is this faith in something that allows us to be reckless.

I'm not saying we can't be too faithful. However, I don't think that being faithful to the point where one won't back down even after learning their actions will likely be more costly then helpful, or if its revealed safer/more effective alternatives are available, applies to Sonic very much if at all. It's not as much that he doesn't care about the consequences related to his actions. It has more to do with the idea that it never occurs to Sonic to think of the risk associated with his actions, or he does not consider the risk enough. That's where Sally comes in by encouraging him to think. Sometimes however, when Sally will try to "reason" with him and her "reason" is along the lines of "Its dangerous" or "we cannot assess the risk", it goes pretty ignored by Sonic as it probably would by most people.

It's not because he's far too overconfident, but because ALL the FFs have to go on missions and take risks with the element of the unknown. If not doing something because the risks are unknown were a valid reason to ignore every mission, they probably would not be alive today. Even at the end of Doomsday, Sally had to concede when trying to provide "reason" in this sort of way.

That is a very specific aspect of his character;


Your assuming that even if it were, that Sally is only restrained to that particular flaw of his personality.

Sally chastens him and insists that he needs more than physicality to survive the war, yet is obviously attracted to his physicality.


I don't find that very heartwarming. Essentially she values Sonic most especially as an appliance.

You're telling me that Sonic can't have any more aspects to his personality than that?


No.


He can't be additionally cruel (toward Antoine), jealous (of Griff), too trusting of superficial personality traits (with Ari)?


I'm not saying that Sonic has to have one flaw. I am not saying recklessness IS refferring to one flaw or any flaw in particular. I'm saying its the expression of every flaw. Instead of foiling a particular flaw, Sally has access to all of them. I never said she was the voice of dissent for one specific flaw, the exact opposite actually. As for your examples of other flaws, there's Sonic being gullible about Ari's intentions which Sally also chastises him for. There's impatience, which Sally is dissentful of, she's defended Antoine against Sonic's rudeness (Sonic Boom), Sonic's pessimism (Sonic and the secret scolls), etc.

You're saying that we couldn't have used other characters in these situations to develop more interesting plots that didn't overuse Sally?


If you did you'd cheapen Sally's role to the story as well as the other character in question. Because Sally's supposed to balance Sonic, if everyone balances Sonic then the uniqueness of her relationship with him is destroyed. The FFs also pretty much relinquish the responsibility for her to do so, which protects Sally from being cheapened by them.


Not everyone is too reckless.


I never said that not everyone is too reckless. I said that everyone is reckless to some degree.

That's the boogie-man word every time this argument pops up, "flaws", as if a character/person/whoever is nothing besides the sum total of their most negative personality traits.

That's not true. Sonic's positive traits will give him value to his comrades, so it is important to emphasize those too. But likewise, His flaws will give them the chance to contribute who they are to his life to be valued as persons.

If you make a character who can't interact with people beyond their "flaws", then you're a lazy, incompetent writer. Sonic can have Sally be his foil, but still be Tails' big brother figure, Rotor's best buddy, Antoine's antagonizer, etc. That's called "writing".


That's called "empty writing." You slapped on roles like "brother", "buddy" and antagonizer doesn't have to be a role given to two people with a bond that's very strong. Problem is, you've forgotten to add the substance that'd make those roles beleivable. Why does Sonic value highly Tails as a person? Saying he's the brother figure ignores the fact you're thinking backwards. The basis for valuing the person comes before the role is established.

And, at the end of the day, it's all reading way, WAY too deep into a cartoon show that only had 26 episodes, and not enough time to flesh out every inter-character relationship before it's plug got pulled. So chill out.


How is creating a strong heart component thinking way too much about a cartoon? It's an element that helps the quality of the story, and an element that the story implies exists.

#76 FreakyFilmFan4ever

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 06:40 AM

QUOTE ("Miko":1lnsh8ai)
QUOTE ("fishtheimpaler":1lnsh8ai)

QUOTE
If you make a character who can't interact with people beyond their "flaws", then you're a lazy, incompetent writer. Sonic can have Sally be his foil, but still be Tails' big brother figure, Rotor's best buddy, Antoine's antagonizer, etc. That's called "writing".


That's called "empty writing." You slapped on roles like "brother", "buddy" and antagonizer doesn't have to be a role given to two people with a bond that's very strong. Problem is, you've forgotten to add the substance that'd make those roles beleivable. Why does Sonic value highly Tails as a person? Saying he's the brother figure ignores the fact you're thinking backwards. The basis for valuing the person comes before the role is established.


I don't know if it would be called empty writing, and if it was, I don't know if empty writing isn't all that bad, because the same "slapped-on-roles" of brotherliness were what won The Lord of the Rings an Oscar for "Best Adapted Screenplay" (just look at the "brother" relationship of Sam and Frodo, Legolas and Gimly, and the cliched "evil-step-mother/father" relationship of Sarumon and Woremtoung).

There are cliched roles because that's what is reflected in life, and therefore are commonly used in storytelling. Just look at how well the cliched premise of a poor single dad worked out for "Pursuit of Happiness". The trick is to write them so they don't seemed "slapped on". That's the hard part. Jackson and his team did it well for LOTR, and there are other talented writers who could do it as well for a Sonic movie, whatever characters are used to tell the story.
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#77 Guest_Miko_*

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 09:57 AM

QUOTE
I don't know if it would be called empty writing, and if it was, I don't know if empty writing isn't all that bad, because the same "slapped-on-roles" of brotherliness were what won The Lord of the Rings an Oscar for "Best Adapted Screenplay" (just look at the "brother" relationship of Sam and Frodo, Legolas and Gimly, and the cliched "evil-step-mother/father" relationship of Sarumon and Woremtoung).


Wait--- cliche? The role may be cliche, but it can have substance. You can still outline the flaws of a character, and how each individulal compensates for one another with their good qualities. I'm not saying you can't give a character a role that's cliche. I'm saying that you have figure out how these characters will compliment each other and THEN award them the role. Simply saying they have a role isn't good enough.

#78 FreakyFilmFan4ever

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 10:50 AM

QUOTE ("Miko":6vnk0sow)
QUOTE
I don't know if it would be called empty writing, and if it was, I don't know if empty writing isn't all that bad, because the same "slapped-on-roles" of brotherliness were what won The Lord of the Rings an Oscar for "Best Adapted Screenplay" (just look at the "brother" relationship of Sam and Frodo, Legolas and Gimly, and the cliched "evil-step-mother/father" relationship of Sarumon and Woremtoung).


Wait--- cliche? The role may be cliche, but it can have substance. You can still outline the flaws of a character, and how each individulal compensates for one another with their good qualities. I'm not saying you can't give a character a role that's cliche. I'm saying that you have figure out how these characters will compliment each other and THEN award them the role. Simply saying they have a role isn't good enough.


Exactly! The LOTR characters have substance, and that's something that can be done (and needs to be done) with whatever characters would be used in a Sonic movie.

Although, character substance depends on exactly how the script itself is written. I don't think we can see character substance as well as a plot suggestion in a setting of a forum, since it really can't be discussed to its fullest without someone first writing a script so we can see what needs improvement more clearly. So the subject of character substance may need to be put on hold until we can find what overall plot we like best.
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#79 Guest_Miko_*

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 11:30 AM

QUOTE
Exactly! The LOTR characters have substance, and that's something that can be done (and needs to be done) with whatever characters would be used in a Sonic movie.


Well yeah, the characters should have substance but so should the relationships between them.

QUOTE
Although, character substance depends on exactly how the script itself is written.


I think that the story should really be about the character you want to write with the plot complimenting the character first and foremost.

QUOTE
I don't think we can see character substance as well as a plot suggestion in a setting of a forum, since it really can't be discussed to its fullest without someone first writing a script so we can see what needs improvement more clearly.


All I need to know is this: We've got multiple characters that need to display a strong bond with Sonic. How they'd balance Sonic may need some discussion and CAN be dicussed on an a messageboard. However it doesn't change the fact that this need for the characters to be highly valued by Sonic is present. As a result I don't think Sally would fit regardless.

#80

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 11:39 AM

Alright Miko, I'm sure a lot of us on the sidelines here can see you're very . . . well versed in your opinion. However, for all of your posts, all you have really done is state that in your opinion, Sally would not serve as a "highly valued character" for Sonic in a possible movie.
I'm referring back to MsFire here, what evidence to you have to support your claim? Otherwise it's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but (this is just my humble view) you seem to be talking yourself in circles. Not to be offensive.




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