120 replies to this topic

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a SatAM and "Sonic 3 & Knuckles" hybrid film would work better as the first movie in a Sonic movie trilogy, with some twists in the overall plot (something we haven't read/played/seen in a form of Sonic media. No point in watching the movie for the first time if you already know EVERYTHING that's going to happen in it).

This way all the main characters get their fair introductions, characters that might harm the storytelling from one source get weeded out and replaced by other characters from other sources, and we get a different plot that is reminiscent of something ALL of the Sonic fans would like. SatAM fans get what they want, and other Sonic fans who don't know/like SatAM get what they want. Everyone is happy at the end...(hopefully )

Characters would then be further developed to help advance THAT plot. This would mean making whatever changes necessary to ALL of the characters to help fit THIS story This means ALL characters may get changed. Sonic would not be exempt from slight personality changes, either.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

I don't agree with changing characters to suit the plot. At least not in terms of personality and such. We have a plethora of characters already and if a certain character fits THAT poorly, then they shouldn't be used. Granted a lot of the Sonic cast's personalities and relationships to one another have a very loose and easy to expand premise. But when you have to "change" as in hack away at? That's a no-go for me.

I guess I should choose my word more carefully. I'd never meant "change" as in hack away at it. Just expanding those who have loose characteristics so they wouldn't feel like a "fifth leg" the movie, as they sometimes do in even the video games and Archie comics. Even Sonic would be fleshed out a little more to have more emotional weight. And there are some characters that probably shouldn't be used at all because they would be a total distraction from the script, but I wouldn't know exactly which ones unless I wrote the script myself.

[DCC]

For a Sonic movie, I would have a combination of Sat a.m. and Archie. All I would want to accomplish would probably take more than one film. Also, I don't see Sally as a problem, and I am tied of her being seen as such. Sally has given Sonic more heart(for me) than even Tails or Sonic's family at times, and so has enhanced his character. Sonic would be the main focus, besides the defeat of Robotnic, but Sally and her relationship with Sonic would have an important role in the movie(if I was in charge). I would like to see Sonic go on an emotional journey were he grows up, and becomes a more noble hero.

[Gojira007]

Given that Sally was designed to be a catch-all foil, and has proven (and prided by Sonic/Sally fans) to 'balance' Sonic at the expense of other characters being able to contribute who they are to him, I've got to disagree with you here. Still, I wanna know: You say you're tired of people saying these things about Sally, but why do you think that Sally wouldn't be a problematic character to add?

Because she's an interesting and engaging character in her own right, AND she's able to challenge Sonic in a way no other character could without altering their fundamental personalities. Her presence only excludes the other characters if the writer using them is too narrow-minded to see the ways those characters can and have interacted with and enhanced Sonic's character in SatAM and Archie even with her in the story.

[Gojira007]

Not...really...

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

I think the reason some say the SonSal relationship is problematic is because relationship within war is problematic anyway, and we really don't see their relationship outside of the midst of the war against Robotnic. We caught just the slightest glimpse of it at the end of "The Doomsday Project", but it died quicker at the hands of ABC then it did at the hands of Snively.

But, I think that could become a very strong point in the sub-plot of the film (the war, not ABC ). See the two grow as characters during the war, wanting to be together, but both knowing they can't because A) they need to be focused on the war, not possibly raising babies (!) and, If somehow the villain picks up on the hero's relationship, he's likely to exploit it. We all saw what Robotnic did when he saw Sonic and Sally's budding relationship in SatAM. He made a robotic clone of Sally and used her as a spy.

[Gojira007]

I think the reason some say the SonSal relationship is problematic is because relationship within war is problematic anyway, and we really don't see their relationship outside of the midst of the war against Robotnic. We caught just the slightest glimpse of it at the end of "The Doomsday Project", but it died quicker at the hands of ABC then it did at the hands of Snively.

Love stories have been woven into adventure stories since adventure stories started being told without any major problems. Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Superman, The Fifth Element, and so on and so on and so on. All of these are stories which deal with an ongoing conflict against a powerful enemy, and all of them deftly and efficiently weave a tale of budding relationships into that narrative. Even if we accept that Sally would have to play the part of Sonic's love interest if she were to be in a hypothetical film, it's hardly a problematic proposition for her to do so.

EDIT: Oh hi, Miko, nice to see you again. :3

[Morgan]

Let's not turn this into another "Sally is useless" topic again. Why Sally is supposedly "detrimental" to the Sonic universe has nothing whatsoever to do with ideas for a Sonic movie.

[Morgan]

SatAM uses Sally as a character. If there is a SatAM movie, she's a character. You could kill her off in a dramatic thing, but you can't not use her.

Also, I don't see anyone else complaining about Sally.

[Gojira007]

It kind of does because of the fact that it'd affect the quality of the film. I wonder if anyone's considered a SatAM-esque film WITHOUT Princess Sally. Does anyone have anything to say about that?

Yes: I'd rather not see one. For me, and for others I'm sure, Sally and SatAM are intrinsically tied together. Remove her from the story, and while you may still have a workable idea on your hands, it'll be missing a very important piece.

Oh, and just curious: what was with that whole "centerless universe" thing? Not sure I followed the joke you were making there, I'm afraid...^^;

[Morgan]

SatAM uses Sally as a character.

SatAM uses Dulcy, Ari, etc as characters. We couldn't have a SatAM-esque movie without them?

No.

For me, and for others I'm sure, Sally and SatAM are intrinsically tied together. Remove her from the story, and while you may still have a workable idea on your hands, it'll be missing a very important piece.

"Important" you say. I guess that's the thing. I don't really see how she's all that important if she is incredibly problematic for the story.

This was not said to me, but I must point out, again, there is no one else who points out these "problematic" aspects of Sally save for a small collection who dislike her for a reason which eludes me, I guess.

[Gojira007]

"Important" you say. I guess that's the thing. I don't really see how she's all that important if she is incredibly problematic for the story.

She isn't. You don't like her, and that's fine, but the only way she can properly be defined as problematic to the story is if she somehow hindered its plot or her presence made it more difficult to tell the story. Considering she was part of the SatAM concept from its inception, I find it hard to believe that's true.

Getting off of semantics, though, she is important as a character for a variety of reasons, not the least of which being her abilities as a leader. Tactics and planning seemed to be Sally's primary specialty; take her out, and you're left with inexperienced Tails, headstrong Sonic, brash Bunnie, cowardly Antoine, and tech-savy but not-used-to-frontline-action Rotor. While I suppose at least one of these characters could be retooled to make up for that particular deficiency, it seems redundant when Sally could fill that role without tinkering.

Then there's her role in the group dynamic. Sally is the one who tries (and frequently fails) to keep Sonic's ego in check. Sally is the one who acts as Tails' surrogate mother. Sally is Bunnie's best friend. Sally is the symbol of the world the Freedom Fighters used to have, and the only hope they have of bringing that world back. SOMEONE needs to restore the Monarchy once Robotnik's deposed, after all, and the only one who can is the Princess. In other words, Sally is the one most trying to be a responsible adult among a group of kids, trying to hold their rag-tag group together and given her cool, calm, controlled personality, she's more or the less the only one who can. Which leads me directly to...

...the fact that Sally herself is, at least to me, a fascinating character. A child stripped of her father (yes, I know this is true of everyone, but other than Sonic and Uncle Chuck, Sally is the only character who frequently opines for the family she lost), a Princess stripped of her Kingdom, and a Leader fighting a losing battle. Sally tries so hard to keep control over an uncontrollable situation, and the strain of her position is made clear more than once. She's strong, she's not reliant on others, but at the same time, she holds herself up to impossible standards. That sort of conflict is ripe for exploration, and one of the things that so grabbed me about the series was its willingness to explore that fact.

Check your location ;p

Ah. I see.

No worries; I have no delusions about my significance in the grand scheme of the universe or even just the grand scheme of this board.