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@  Wulfsbane : (09 September 2019 - 10:12 AM)

We'll probably see Tracer soon

@  Shadow : (06 September 2019 - 10:48 PM)

I'd rather see Mai in Smash

@  Wulfsbane : (06 September 2019 - 09:05 AM)

I'm more surprised about the Fatal Fury character.

@  Wulfsbane : (06 September 2019 - 08:00 AM)

Really wasn't keen on the idea of Sans being playable, but I guess he's in the same vein as Ness/Lucas

@  Wulfsbane : (06 September 2019 - 08:00 AM)

I think it works.

@  GamemasterAn... : (05 September 2019 - 06:53 AM)

So...Sans is a Mii Gunner costume for Smash. Comments?

@  Wulfsbane : (31 August 2019 - 08:00 PM)

Alright, AEW's All Out was pretty freaking good.

@  Wulfsbane : (20 August 2019 - 06:22 AM)

The Knux will Layeth the Smacketh Down all over your Candy Ass!

@  GamemasterAn... : (20 August 2019 - 05:59 AM)

"Finally, the Knux...HAS COME BACK...to Angel Island!"

@  Wulfsbane : (19 August 2019 - 07:26 PM)

Strangely I can see it.

@  Shadow : (18 August 2019 - 10:39 PM)

Imagine Dwayne Johnson voicing Knuckles...

@  Wulfsbane : (17 August 2019 - 02:31 PM)

The Rock has come back? XP

@  chief : (17 August 2019 - 02:26 PM)

http://www.sonicsatam.com/sea3on/ finally...

@  Wulfsbane : (17 August 2019 - 07:40 AM)

Good to hear.

@  chief : (13 August 2019 - 07:27 PM)

We are in talk with background artists actually...

@  Shadow : (13 August 2019 - 12:54 AM)

some traditional cel painted backgrounds would be lovely.

@  Shadow : (13 August 2019 - 12:54 AM)

Is their any plans on what might be added if the budget reaches a certain quota?

@  wildfire : (13 August 2019 - 12:05 AM)

Just saw the preview for Sea3son animated. It looks awesome! Voices are great. I only wish I had money to support.

@  wildfire : (12 August 2019 - 11:30 PM)

Glad to see this place is still bustling. I went through my old comics last night, made me think of you all. I miss this place sometimes.

@  Ishapar : (12 August 2019 - 10:39 AM)

Keep screaming, Redauthar.


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52 replies to this topic

#1 Shadow

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 07:12 PM

I'm sure we've had a dozen topics like this before in the past of what would you do/change yada, yada...but I figured for a show that's over 12 years old now I'm sure there are some things we would like to change or at least expand on if ever the opportunity arose.

 

For one, the humor was a major weak spot of the show when it tried to balance out the dark elements. The characters Antoine and Dulcy were usually there to try to lighten the mood and provide some chuckles, but I find that most often they missed the mark and came off more as minor nuisances. If you look at Antoine's character, he is obviously based off the famous Inspector Clouseau of the Pink Panther films. A complete moron with an outrageous bad french accent who tends to walk face first into danger. Instead of Antoine being the third wheel of most missions, I'd have made him more of a wild card. A guy who screws up in hilarious and unexpected ways that will not only get the Freedom Fighters in trouble, but then make things worse for Robotnik than they ever could. Could think of some great ideas with this formula if done properly.

 

Another thing I felt could had been expanded upon, was the character development. Now, for only having two seasons I found it did a good job with what it had. It centered on Sally and how she felt, some of Bunnie, and Sonic's plight with his uncle. But I found when it came to Robotnik, he had no story. He was just always evil, and always plotting. What we saw in the Blast to the Past episodes isn't really an origin so much as a prelude. Same with Snively.

 

Anyway, I wanna hear what you guys have to say.



#2 HeavensChampion

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 04:57 AM

We could add some other nations to it. Give Naugus some backstory, like he's the surviving member of a species that ruled Mobius with an iron fist and was overthrown by the Freedom Fighters' ancestors. Oh, and maybe a race of elf-like beings long thought to be just be a myth.



#3 E122Psi

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Posted 03 February 2016 - 05:08 AM

I'd probably look more into developing and giving limelight to whole cast.

 

While it and Boom are far different sides of the coin, one thing I think works about the latter is how many episodes are like character analyses for each member of the team, focusing on a vice or weakness of one of the heroes (or even one of the villains) and how it affects them and how they have to overcome it, most often after it gives Eggman the advantage by their carelessness or him exploiting it (eg. Sonic's hubris, Tails' obsession with his inventions, Amy's delusions of grandeur).

 

I think the key reason Satam's cast felt a bit underplayed is because they tended to only do this with Sonic (again concerning his hubris or recklessness), everyone else was usually just a straight man (eg. Sally, Uncle Chuck) or comic relief (eg. Antoine, Dulcy) or just sorta there (eg. Rotor, Bunnie) par very rare episodes (eg. Hooked On Sonics was a decent attempt at focusing on Antoine, even if it was forgotten about completely afterwards).

 

Imagine if they had given that same bit of character growth to the others, maybe Sally wouldn't have gained that whole 'Mary Sue' label with fans or Dulcy wouldn't be seen as annoying and one dimensional. It would maybe also make Sonic seem less insufferable because he wouldn't be the one always having to act up and learn a lesson, he could even have more moments of clarity when it was someone else's turn.



#4 LogiTeeka

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 02:26 PM

^ I agree with E122Psi. ^

For me personally, I would've combined the continuities of SatAM and "Underground" into a single narrative. That way, some of the show's issues would've been fixed and the total amount of episodes would rival that of AoStH (25 + 40 = 65).

Robotnik, for instance, was underdeveloped and pretty one-dimensional in SatAM. But in "Underground", while not fully explored, he was much more fleshed-out in terms of character. He was vain, selfish, pompous, and also very flamboyant - which provided enough comedic material for him without tarnishing his threatening presence. His endgoal of making the world a totalitarian system and blackmailing the rich into paying for "security" also made much more sense; unlike his generic villainous goal of polluting the world for some unknown reason.

Sonic being a foil would also be downgraded, since he's shown to be the most courageous and levelheaded of the siblings. Plus, Sonia would've been a better choice for an additional female cast-member rather than Dulcy. "Underground" also made use of its environment; each episode took place in a completely different location and there were many different cultures and settings explored. This gave the show a surprising amount of depth and lore.

When it comes to combining the two continuities, it's not that difficult. Just change some of the details and it writes itself: Aleena separates her children during the Great War, Sonic is raised by Uncle Chuck, then Robotnik's coup happens - leading to the events of SatAM and eventually "Underground". Now you got two series running parallel with each other.

Had the comics been more faithful to the show, this would've added even more lore to the continuity.



#5 E122Psi

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 03:29 PM

For all people rag on Underground, it did improve on Satam's dynamic to some degree, giving it more substance. As you mentioned Robotnik's goals and personality were more developed (even if the characterisation in action maybe wasn't as gripping), and the heroes did a greater deal of drifting, which fit Sonic's character better and also allowed for more world building. I also feel Underground's team felt a lot more comfortable working with different characters and even adding one shots if they could improve the plot, compared to many episodes of Satam which tended to shy from expanding outside the dynamic of 'Sonic and Sally vs Robotnik and Snively (with a bit of Antoine comic relief here and there)' and most other characters feeling kind of superfluous. Even among the main cast, their dynamic felt rounder and more developed. The siblings foiled each other more evenly and had more equal chance to show their importance, compared to the strict hierarchy of Satam's heroic trio (why did they even drag Antoine around?).

 

May I also add I kinda liked elements of the pilot episode Heads or Tails. The finalised Season One designs were better, but the pilot felt a bit more vibrant with more bits of personality to the surroundings and cast. I think it also better achieved that balance of whimsy and drama that Season Two attempted, but often fell between the two chairs.



#6 Shadow

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 12:32 AM

Actually what was given to Robotnik in Sonic Underground was just a simple cut and paste of the Robin Hood scenario. Robin Hood/Sonic and his merry men/siblings foil the plots of the Sheriff of Nottingham/Robotnik who is taxing the people/mobians.



#7 LogiTeeka

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 08:20 AM

Actually what was given to Robotnik in Sonic Underground was just a simple cut and paste of the Robin Hood scenario. Robin Hood/Sonic and his merry men/siblings foil the plots of the Sheriff of Nottingham/Robotnik who is taxing the people/mobians.


Makes sense. Pretty much every Freedom Fighter story is influenced by the legend, intentionally or not.

#8 E122Psi

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 09:19 AM

Maybe cut out the taxes part, but I like the idea of Robotnik keeping non-robotocized Mobians around, if only to keep them under his foot. Robotnik was a narcissist after all, he'd rather have people cowering or sucking up to him than a bunch of mindless drones.

 

I feel this is why they should have kept the robotocization process explained as just 'brainwashing' rather than self aware living death (besides the fact the execution of the latter within a kids cartoon was inevitably laughable and unbelievable) as well as keep the premise of living man-made robots like Cluck and the heckling Swatbots in the pilot (it made the two villains feel less isolated as well). It doesn't seem like Robotnik would get any gratification from subjects with no sentience, he'd want his name up in lights. He could cheat and 'tweak' their sentience to worship him, but he'd want something alive enough to pamper his ego. I also like the idea mentioned in the bible that Robotnik loves robotics and technology, robotic life is better to him, even if it obviously would have less well intentions than in said source material.



#9 furrykef

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 09:32 AM

Well, there's the old saw that there are only five or six plots in all of storytelling. It's just that the recycling is more obvious at some times than others.

#10 Shadow

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 09:31 AM

I think in terms of writing it should have tried to have adapting the stories of some of the earlier games. Season 2 could had been a great example to build up Robotnik building his Death Egg instead of his Doomsday Machine, which should have been more than just a glorified drill. It could have been a world tour arc adapting the levels from Sonic 2, with new SatAM characters introduced along the way.



#11 Bakuda

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 10:01 AM

It would've been nice to see how the characters would've developed on a third season.  Particularly, i always wondered what they would do to mature Tails a bit.  But, after 2 seasons we should've seen more character development, that's for sure.  I'll agree with what Shadow said about Antoine and Dulcy.  Antoine I can deal with as a minor annoyance, but I can't stand Dulcy.  She serves no other purpose than a glorified airplane.  I loved the second season.....except for her.


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#12 E122Psi

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 01:34 PM

Dulcy could have been tolerable if:

 

1. she got a proper introduction, and

 

2. she'd been developed as something more than bad comic relief.

 

As said if she'd gotten more personality establishment she could have been a more interesting character. Even the limelight episode she DID get didn't really delve much at all into her as a character.

 

I do however agree she was superfluous, and nothing about her was that funny (that catchphrase got old VERY quick and something about Cree Summer's voice for her just comes off as grating). Antoine was at least tolerable because he was supposed to be annoying, the other characters vented that and he was at least partially funny and sympathetic from how much of a loser he was (even if he was milked WAY more than necessary). Dulcy had no foibles and everyone shilled her. She didn't even get to have much of an active role outside being a flight vehicle, Robotnik for some reason hardly ever targeted or challenged her and forced her to act out her goofy comfort zone.

 

Bunnie should have also been used WAY more. She deserved at least one limelight episode (maybe a flashback about her robotocization). At the very least there should have been at least ONE Season Two episode she had some sort of physical role in a mission. It's like the writers completely forgot about her.



#13 Ishapar

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Posted 15 February 2016 - 05:22 PM

I'm not sure character development was the main focus in creating Sonic Satam: during the first season, most of the episodes were distant from each other (though they did share some ties with each other) and it wasn't until season 2 that the episodes started to frame out a chronological storyline.  With the staff working on just fleshing out a story, I am surprised at what we did get out of the characters in 26 episodes.  We may not have gotten deep in each of the Freedom Fighters, but at least we were able to make some connections with them that we wanted to see more development with the characters.  That's pretty good for a short kids show.

 

Since I grew up playing the SEGA games and watching Sonic X, coming to grips with Sonic from SATAM was a little difficult; however, now that I have watched the entire series I can appreciate the work done with Sonic.  He is by far the most balanced of all the Sonics I have encountered, and he actually does have more to him than his arrogant outward ego (Sonic's Nightmare anybody?).  If anything, I would have Sonic not use the same catch phrases constantly and have him show more of his video game abilities (Swatbots, no problem "spindash").  The way season 3 would have turned out (and how SEA3ON is coming along), situations would have risen that would have matured Sonic and have accept more responsibilities.

 

I was surprised to find Dulcy at the beginning of season 2: this does seem to be her achille's heel.  We spent a whole season getting to know the freedom fighters, and then a green dragon comes out of nowhere and is part of the main cast.  It certainly doesn't help that she had more screentime than most of the previous freedom fighters excluding Sonic and Sally.  We do get hints that she probably lost her mother to Robotnik and ended meeting the freedom fighters (the whole Dulcy episode and he cameo in Blast to the Past); the writers could have taken it further by at least giving a flashback or at least an episode of when the fighters meet up with Dulcy and how she offically became their air transport.  But all in all I was not annoyed by Dulcy, and I did get a couple laughs at some of her landings (I wonder if she will ever pop up in SEA3ON???).

 

Antoine obviously is considered the load of the freedom fighters; the poor guy isn't even meant to receive sympathy as he turns out to be a selfish coward paranoid at anything unnatural (or unclean, Sonic!!!).  He is not totally useless: he does make an interesting foil to Sonic as both characters are arrogant and haughty (and seek Sally's attention), but while Sonic genuinely cares for the others, Antoine is self absorbed.  That's what makes those two great throughout the series: Sonic finds any opportunity to ridicule Antoine because, as is shown in most episodes, he deserves it!  Antoine also ends up annoying Sonic in a comical fashion: anybody else get a laugh when Antoine landed in Sonic's hut and got thrown out?

 

I believe the main issue I had with Sonic Satam was how much Rotor was downplayed in the second season.  I actually enjoyed his character, and I would have loved to see him get out of Knothole more often (at least take him out instead of Antoine).


Before honor comes humility.

 

The Most High God created this world we live in, and He created man in His image for Himself.  Whether we like it or not doesn't change the truth nor does it change the consequences.

 

 

gallery 51493 212 294091

 

 


#14 Bakuda

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Posted 18 February 2016 - 06:24 PM

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It's funny hearing from someone of your generation saying they had to come to grips with the SatAM Sonic.  Myself, growing up with the Genesis games and SatAM, I still haven't come to grips with Sonic X and the modern Sonic games.  And don't even get me started on Sonic Boom!  I didn't even last 5 minutes.


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#15 LogiTeeka

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Posted 18 February 2016 - 07:55 PM

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It's funny hearing from someone of your generation saying they had to come to grips with the SatAM Sonic. Myself, growing up with the Genesis games and SatAM, I still haven't come to grips with Sonic X and the modern Sonic games. And don't even get me started on Sonic Boom! I didn't even last 5 minutes.

I grew up with both generations by playing the Gamecube games (SA1/SA2, "Heroes", and the "Mega Collection") and watching "Sonic X", but had no problems with watching SatAM or "Underground" when I later stumbled across them. When "Boom" was announced, its new direction didn't faze me in the slightest (I've seen worse done to Sonic).

I guess I'm probably one of the weird ones.

#16 Vampfox

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 01:20 AM

I would have like to have seen some gray area characters. Don't get me wrong I love Satam, but at times the show felt too black and white(good vs evil).



#17 Bakuda

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 08:47 AM

I would have like to have seen some gray area characters. Don't get me wrong I love Satam, but at times the show felt too black and white(good vs evil).

Yes, but what I liked about it was the dark overtones.  It wasn't like every other cartoon of the day where the hero fights the villain and always wins.  In SatAM, the show starts when the good guys have already lost.  There's episodes where things don't always go well.  Sometimes friends were lost.  It was unique to cartoons of the day.


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#18 LogiTeeka

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 08:58 AM

I would have like to have seen some gray area characters. Don't get me wrong I love Satam, but at times the show felt too black and white(good vs evil).

Yes, but what I liked about it was the dark overtones.  It wasn't like every other cartoon of the day where the hero fights the villain and always wins.  In SatAM, the show starts when the good guys have already lost.  There's episodes where things don't always go well.  Sometimes friends were lost.  It was unique to cartoons of the day.

Didn't "Batman: The Animated Series" do it first? I'm pretty sure SatAM's darker/bleaker tone was heavily inspired by it.

#19 DCC

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 09:16 AM

I would have like to have seen some gray area characters. Don't get me wrong I love Satam, but at times the show felt too black and white(good vs evil).

That is something I have come to appreciate from Sonic Sat a.m., the trend now seems to be to make things too gray, where it seems it is hard to tell what side is good/evil, right or wrong(for example, it is one of my criticisms of Legend of Korra). 



#20 Shadow

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Posted 20 February 2016 - 01:41 AM

As an adult its easier to see the flaws in things originally meant for children and not hard to pull apart and analyze.




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