69 replies to this topic

[bwrosas]

From the 1st epsiode of his Bumblekast Podcast :

http://www.saturdaym...3cb2acc932b1467

 

what ar​e your thoughts?

 

[sonicroc]

Interesting... If anyone's getting worried, please listen to the clip first, as he makes it clear that this almost certainly isn't going to happen. 

 

As to my own opinion...  I would say I'd be for it, I think.  It sounds like a fun idea, maybe.  .... But I've always thought that if Sally was going to go for one of the female cast, it should be for Amy.  That would just be a nice way to, in a sense, have peace after all the people pitting the two against each other like only one of them can exist.  But I digress... 

 

I have fairly strong opinions as far as consciousness, robotics, etc., and so Nicole stresses me out as a character for some reason, on some level, so I don't know... Plus, I feel like being in love with a computer, even a computer with consciousness, would be a potentially emotionally traumatic experience... But I guess that could be said about a lot of romance. 

 

In the end, I'm with Ian; I think it's best to avoid romantic coupling when it can be avoided, because everyone starts getting obnoxious about that sort of thing.  Sonic fans ruin all kinds of fun.

[LogiTeeka]

Honestly, I'd be perfectly fine with it. The new Sally isn't the same one as before, so that leaves plenty of room for newer interpretations. And since she's no longer allowed by SEGA to be romantically paired with Sonic, that opens more doors for potential character development.

Sure, it's nothing like the original Sally (at least, I think...). But the reboot had to sacrifice several things in order to appeal to SEGA's demands. For example, Uncle Chuck is still around, but he's no longer considered Sonic's relative. Same goes for Snively and Robotnik/Eggman.

Keep in mind, there's nothing in their contract that REQUIRES Sally to be a lesbian; Ian could find a new potential love-interest for Sally to show that she's still into boys. But who could she be with? The official SEGA cast is off-limits, Antoine is already married, and Rotor doesn't seem all that interested. He could create a new character to fill in the void, but that could open up a whole new can of worms. His options are pretty limited when to comes to that sort of relationship.

And in the end, does it really matter? Sally is still a strong, levelheaded leader and she and Sonic are still fun-loving friends. Changing one insignificant trait isn't all that different from say, giving her an new outfit. She's still the same character we know and love; just with a slightly different coat of paint. And even if she is lesbian, it's not like the comic is going to dwell on this one aspect. Shows like "Steven Universe" and "Adventure Time" had some underlying gay themes, but they didn't distract the viewers from the story. They're still fun and enjoyable shows. Those subtexts were only there for those looking for them.

[sonicroc]

Right.  As long as she's not together with Monkey Khan, I'm okay.  And I don't think I have to worry about that anymore.  I just... don't like Monkey Khan....    ....  But anyway....

[Wulfsbane]

I'm against this.

 

I think this would be forced. Yeah post reboot you can say she's different but in reality it's not. It would essentially be a forced turn IMHO. There's nothing to show that a turn would happen. It would be akin to Fiona's heel turn all over again.

 

 

I know this will most likely never happen, but still I dont think it should happen to begin with. Sure we can talk about it and we can toss the idea around but I believe the more you think about it, its not a good idea to do.

[Shadow]

It really does sound forced, and I doubt SEGA would had ever allowed a gay character in their children's comic. It just screams "I have no ideas left on what to do with her".

[Wulfsbane]

I know this isnt going to happen, but if Flynn is running out of ideas (in general) then it may be time to bring other writers into the equation to help him.

[furrykef]

As someone who definitely isn't 100% straight himself: I don't like this idea. It goes against the previous 23 or so years of characterization and it sounds like a publicity stunt. Even if it isn't intended as one, that's what it sounds like. Sure, the Princess Sally we have now isn't the same as the one we had before, but I think if you just go changing characters arbitrarily then what's the point of making them the same character? What makes her Sally as opposed to somebody else?

I think making her bi would be less problematic than making her gay. I also think if one of the core cast has to be gay, Rotor would be the better choice, as Penders originally planned. But of course we'll never see that happen, 'cause Penders.

[Shadow]

Making any of the characters gay does not work, because it was never part of their core character when first introduced.

[furrykef]

Does it have to be? Many gay people would say it isn't a "core" part of who they are.

[LogiTeeka]

After reading the comments, perhaps the comics are better off having no romance whatsoever.

[Wulfsbane]

After reading the comments, perhaps the comics are better off having no romance whatsoever.

 

That's not the issue most of the time. Half the time its done extremely poorly. The whole Tails/Fiona/Sonic triangle comes into mind of really bad romances in the comics. Remember, Ken Khan kidnapped Sally and later on she likes him romantically? Does she have Stockholm Syndrome in that instance?

 

I'm sure most people would have been fine with the romances in the comic if they were done right and not forced/unlikely under normal circumstances.

[RedAuthar]

Changing a character "gay" is an easy cop out to establish a homosexual character.  Rather than trying to make an interesting character who is homosexual, they belittle an already established character by ignoring any development they've had before that doesn't support this claim.  Why eliminate already established development and "Creative juices" by changing a character when you could just make a new one which would likely be less offensive in the long run to long term fans?

 

The only positive is he isn't pawning it off on Rotor who is the easy out, like marvel did with Iceman from the X-Men.  

[furrykef]

You talk about how such a change must not ignore any existing development, then you call Rotor (who doesn't have any existing development in that area that I know of) the easy out. I don't get it.

[RedAuthar]

Rotor is the easy out as out of all the main cast he is the least developed, least popular (not saying he isn't popular), and would create the least contradiction to past events.  In fact Penders at one time had intended to turn Rotor gay explaining why he didn't spend much time with a female love interest.  So it would be easy to pawn him off as the "token gay character" as they could easily just say he is and never act on it. 

 

All I'm saying is I respect that he was intending to change a more popular character and not take the easy out.  I'm not saying that it is a better option.  

[LogiTeeka]

That's not the issue most of the time. Half the time its done extremely poorly. The whole Tails/Fiona/Sonic triangle comes into mind of really bad romances in the comics. Remember, Ken Khan kidnapped Sally and later on she likes him romantically? Does she have Stockholm Syndrome in that instance?

I recall reading that she showed him the error of his ways and convinced him to turn over a new leaf. And considering the amount of time that passed since their first encounter, it's possible that she might've grown more attached to him due to his personal plight to become a better hero.

Changing a character "gay" is an easy cop out to establish a homosexual character. Rather than trying to make an interesting character who is homosexual, they belittle an already established character by ignoring any development they've had before that doesn't support this claim. Why eliminate already established development and "Creative juices" by changing a character when you could just make a new one which would likely be less offensive in the long run to long term fans?

I fail to see how "previously established developments" apply to a new continuity that has absolutely no connections to the prior one. I mean, Eggman was never the freaky Julian or Robo-Robotnik in this reality, despite him technically being the same character. Their histories are entirely different, which makes him and the rest of the cast separate iterations.

Sure, they all got zapped with reminders of who they used to be, but those were only visions. It didn't affect their new identities afterwards.

[sonicroc]

I fail to see how "previously established developments" apply to a new continuity that has absolutely no connections to the prior one.

 

^ this

 

Lol, I knew I was feeling the calm before the storm.

 

Just to be clear, the reason I'm personally in favor of this isn't that it would make a statement about gay rights or anything; I assume most Sonic fans are past that debate, although I'm not sure.

 

The main reason for me is because Sally is a character that I personally care a lot about, since I sort of "grew up with her."  And over the years, the whole Sally vs. Amy thing has become very tiring for me, especially since Amy is another character I like a lot.  This has made being a Sonic fan a lot less fun for me. 

 

Now that we have a new continuity, we can start out fresh.

 

... But whatever.  I feel weird debating Sally's love life.  It feels intrusive or something.... 

[RedAuthar]

That's not the issue most of the time. Half the time its done extremely poorly. The whole Tails/Fiona/Sonic triangle comes into mind of really bad romances in the comics. Remember, Ken Khan kidnapped Sally and later on she likes him romantically? Does she have Stockholm Syndrome in that instance?

I recall reading that she showed him the error of his ways and convinced him to turn over a new leaf. And considering the amount of time that passed since their first encounter, it's possible that she might've grown more attached to him due to his personal plight to become a better hero.

Changing a character "gay" is an easy cop out to establish a homosexual character. Rather than trying to make an interesting character who is homosexual, they belittle an already established character by ignoring any development they've had before that doesn't support this claim. Why eliminate already established development and "Creative juices" by changing a character when you could just make a new one which would likely be less offensive in the long run to long term fans?

I fail to see how "previously established developments" apply to a new continuity that has absolutely no connections to the prior one. I mean, Eggman was never the freaky Julian or Robo-Robotnik in this reality, despite him technically being the same character. Their histories are entirely different, which makes him and the rest of the cast separate iterations.

Sure, they all got zapped with reminders of who they used to be, but those were only visions. It didn't affect their new identities afterwards.

But why keep them at all then? Why not replace them with a new cast if their previous established personalities and identities don't matter?
Part of the reboot and them briefly attaining their memories was to show us that despite their different pasts, they are the same characters.
I'm not saying anything in Sally's past says she can't be. What I'm saying is it is a cheap cop out to change an existing character and not just make a new one. I think Ian would have more success making a new character gay rather than changing an old one.

I fail to see how "previously established developments" apply to a new continuity that has absolutely no connections to the prior one.

^ this

Lol, I knew I was feeling the calm before the storm.

Just to be clear, the reason I'm personally in favor of this isn't that it would make a statement about gay rights or anything; I assume most Sonic fans are past that debate, although I'm not sure.

The main reason for me is because Sally is a character that I personally care a lot about, since I sort of "grew up with her." And over the years, the whole Sally vs. Amy thing has become very tiring for me, especially since Amy is another character I like a lot. This has made being a Sonic fan a lot less fun for me.

Now that we have a new continuity, we can start out fresh.

... But whatever. I feel weird debating Sally's love life. It feels intrusive or something....

The problem with changing Amy from "stalking" Sonic, is she would not be the Amy we've come to know and love. Opening up to someone else would have to be her ending story as that would end her growth.

And personally I feel talking about fictional characters and their love life shows how much we've come to love a character. We care who they end up with.

[RedAuthar]

 

And personally I feel talking about fictional characters and their love life shows how much we've come to love a character. We care who they end up with.

 

In hindsight that may have come out harsher than it needed to.  I'm not saying that not wanting to be intrusive about it says you don't care, just saying that wanting to argue about it shows that we do.  

 

That make sense?  

[LogiTeeka]

I fail to see how "previously established developments" apply to a new continuity that has absolutely no connections to the prior one. I mean, Eggman was never the freaky Julian or Robo-Robotnik in this reality, despite him technically being the same character. Their histories are entirely different, which makes him and the rest of the cast separate iterations.
Sure, they all got zapped with reminders of who they used to be, but those were only visions. It didn't affect their new identities afterwards.

But why keep them at all then? Why not replace them with a new cast if their previous established personalities and identities don't matter?
Part of the reboot and them briefly attaining their memories was to show us that despite their different pasts, they are the same characters.
I'm not saying anything in Sally's past says she can't be. What I'm saying is it is a cheap cop out to change an existing character and not just make a new one. I think Ian would have more success making a new character gay rather than changing an old one.

I understand what you're trying to convey, but this is the Sonic franchise we're talking about; a series that has gone through many different iterations and interpretations beforehand. Comparing one incarnation of Sonic to another is like comparing siblings. They're related and might share some similarities, but they have completely different traits and appearances. Each is unique and stands out from the next.

I've heard some fans make similar complaints about SatAM, StC, and "Boom"; saying they have no connections/respect to what came before and should've been their own separate series. But to be perfectly honest, I think they've added more to the franchise than the original source material. Had they stuck to what they had, it would've gotten boring and we wouldn't have most of the stuff we crave about (for better or for worse). In the end, I'm glad we got different interpretations. Keeps us interested.