29 replies to this topic

[ShenFNWoo]

You'd be surprised by what I personally find endearing. Sure, appearances can be complementary, but judging likeability just by looks alone is not my style since I think it's pretty shallow.

 

 

I choose to think this is your view on characters and not real people. There really is no denying that visuals practically dominate human interaction. People can act like they aren't concerned with standards of beauty if they like and act all virtuous and stuff, but inevitably, they're going to wind up with someone at least moderately attractive.

 

 

They've complained about that as well. How else do you explain the various costume changes?

 

 

You mean back then or now? Because I've seen them in the same costumes for the longest time growing up in the 90's and first decade of the 2000's. The only reason they changed costumes from time to time was to provide something fresh. The only costume changes I notice nowadays are due to the political climate changing to satisfy the wusses and the snowflakes.

 

 

As for a comparison, let's compare Sally's finalized design for the first season:

https://vignette3.wi...=20130508100718

 

And compare it to Sally's original design from the pilot:

https://www.destruct...49-sonic.jpg');

 

 

 

 

I would've been fine with either one of these. They still look better than what has come out of the redesign.

 

Not really. Some artists were downright awful at drawing her.

 

http://i.imgur.com/rkUZX8z.png

http://i.imgur.com/lDfjS.png

http://i.imgur.com/5sSQL.png

 

 

 

 

The only picture that looks like trash is the first one. And that's just because of bad drawing. Should've never been hired. Of course skill plays a role in depicting something correctly, but it doesn't necessarily deter from the original concept just because someone decided to take artistic liberties... In that one she looks like she's got a super serious mullet and stoned out of her FN mind. Her eyes aren't even done in that feminine style that she's supposed to have. Of course she looks awful.

 

 

I can think of a better reason why you don't like the latter, and that's personal preference.

 

 

You're constantly trying to even the playing field by busting my stance on the issue down to a mere opinion. Alright fine – the only thing I 'prefer' is that it be the same character.... It's not the same character. This is more than just some simple “I like/dislike this” at first glance, no thought put into it.

 

Okay, let me try putting it this way.... You can (and I've seen it done), make a more fitting Sally for the Sonic Adventure art style (which is only sonic made more anime anyway) that looks pretty much like the original Sally. You may need to browse DA a bit more, I've seen it done a hell of a lot of times – I think a few times by a person named awesomeblossompossom. Again, I don't dislike the idea of them being made to fit in with the Sega Sonic art direction. There's no problem there. I don't necessarily have to mind the putting on clothes. There's a reason I don't dislike the Bunnie redesign you know.

 

https://rotalice2.de...-time-702595895

 

Check it. Sally on the far end. Just pretend that this was in SA artstyle, and you pretty much have what I would've redesigned Sally to look like.

 

 

Now this took forever to find, but I'm glad I did -

 

https://catbeecache....-Blue-678068598

 

Now you tell me, does that head and face look like it would be too out of place in the current Sonic universe, especially if it was combined with a different costume like the one I mentioned above, and with SA proportions?

 

Hell, I just found this:

 

https://veggiemadnes...t/001-654880382

 

Also does the source material justice. How haven't you come across any of these?

 

 

 

As I said before, not all designs translate well into 3D. I mean, it wouldn't work for SatAM Sally either:

https://pre00.devian...ios-d916b5r.png

 

 

 

 

>_> I see your redesign Sally and raise you....

 

https://lemurfeature...-3D-1-699526472

 

 

How's that? :3

 

No.

 

 

I really hoped you were....

 

Skelly is more of a stylized artist. Perhaps you're looking for a design that's more cartoonish in appearance?

 

 

Absolutely not.

 

 

What about a skilled tennis player with lightsaber blades that can cut through solid steel? That sounds pretty badass.

 

 

She'd get shot

 

If they can have both sillier and serious-toned shows with hardly any complaints, I don't see why Sonic can't also have one as well.

 

 

If Sega allowed us to have our unaffected Satam alongside comics meant solely for promoting their games, I wouldn't even be commenting about this.

 

 

I said Sonic is for a general audience; I didn't say it was exclusively for kids. Anyone of any age can watch stuff like Winnie the Pooh or Darkwing Duck and still get some enjoyment out of it. Likewise, Sonic is no different.

 

 

You'll have to excuse me when I don't comprehend. It's murder for me to do all this quote editing. I probably won't reply in good time like I have been for a while because I haven't come up with a method for typing in this text editor reply feature that saves me any kind of time.

 

Anyway, basically, I think you can achieve a good creation without the need to offend either party (the young'uns or the older players/readers/watchers). It comes with making a series that doesn't mix and match polarizing elements. Not to mention, Pooh and Duck don't do that much at all. Pooh is obviously meant for kids, while, Duck is meant for a range between kids and early teens. And wierdly enough, neither one of them have any cringe that I've witnessed.

 

She's not bald, she's furry.

 

 

Well, in a transition from furry to human, as the hair recedes into their skin, what parts do you think are going to go bald first? That's the general standard you go by to figure out what a character would look like if they were human, so “technically” yes, she IS bald in the front and on top. She's got the kusarageddo hair going on a bit.

 

What? Weren't we talking about people we didn't want to socialize with?

 

 

Lol, no? At least I wasn't.

 

Sally has gotten a lot of flack for being nude, despite having fur and wearing a vest and boots, so they had her wear clothes that would conceal her bareness while still keeping it within character.

 

 

They should stop catering to scrubs.

 

Antoine's uniform was removed since male Mobian characters typically have less clothing. Plus, it was (unfortunately) tied to Penders because he gave it a backstory that can no longer be addressed.

 

 

So the answer was to allow Penders to STEAL what was originally theirs and let him claim ownership? Wow

 

And Rotor, well... fans got tired of him always being a minor character. So instead of regulating him to the background, they had him beefed up so that he can partake in the action.

 

 

They could've made him similar to that professor looking guy from GitS. Doesn't go out doing much of anything, but important all the same.

 

And Nicole's original design invoked that of a Greek goddess, which made sense considering the city she controlled. Now that New Mobotropolis and the nanites are no longer present due to legal reasons, Nicole no longer had the need for that aesthetic.

 

 

No one can put a copyright on nanomachines. It's a general concept.  They're allowing Penders to get away with murder.

 

 

Some people prefer the more cartoony style. I myself do.

 

 

Cartoony doesn't have to mean less detailed.

 

While I agree that the postmodern movement can be incredibly pretentious for the wrong reasons, I still don't see anything wrong with having a distinct style. If all art looked the same, it would be boring.

 

 

No one's arguing that there's something wrong with having a distinct style. You can have that distinct style just by drawing. You don't have to help matters along by being lazy(er) and making a mess and calling it art.

 

You don't have to look edgy or complicated in order to be mature.

 

 

I doubt anyone disagrees. Again, this is just a question of taking the lazy route in artwork

 

No, it wouldn't have worked. It clashes too much against Sonic's simple style.

 

 

I think you really need to check Deviant Art more. A lot of you guys seem so secretive and set in your ways when opening up could do you a lot more good. It almost looks like I'm the only member around here these days that have their contact info open and out there to chatted with. No one has said shit to me these entire like, what, 3 years, and it has nothing to do with me not getting along with the Scrubs of Mobius (despite my never having said anything to any of them save one person). If you haven't seen a Sally Acorn art piece that embodies the original sally design while being in line with Sonic Adventure's art style, I think you're being way to reserved.

[LogiTeeka]

 

You'd be surprised by what I personally find endearing. Sure, appearances can be complementary, but judging likeability just by looks alone is not my style since I think it's pretty shallow.

 

I choose to think this is your view on characters and not real people. There really is no denying that visuals practically dominate human interaction. People can act like they aren't concerned with standards of beauty if they like and act all virtuous and stuff, but inevitably, they're going to wind up with someone at least moderately attractive.

 

Yeah, that's true. We, humans, tend to trust our eyes more than our other senses. It's easier to trust or like fictional characters because they tend to make more sense in our mind than the actual world we live in.

 

Of course, there are those to try to look at the deeper stuff that's below the surface, and sometimes our tastes in beauty differ.  Take me, for instance; the girls I tend to find attractive tend to be less favorable to other eyes. But just because I find them pretty doesn't mean I'm solely attracted by their looks; it's the personalities that play a big (often bigger) complementary role.

 

 

 

They've complained about that as well. How else do you explain the various costume changes?

 

You mean back then or now? Because I've seen them in the same costumes for the longest time growing up in the 90's and first decade of the 2000's. The only reason they changed costumes from time to time was to provide something fresh. The only costume changes I notice nowadays are due to the political climate changing to satisfy the wusses and the snowflakes.

 

Back then. Granted, the changes they were assigned weren't as extensive as today's PC climate, but it's always been around.

 

 

 

As for a comparison, let's compare Sally's finalized design for the first season:

https://vignette3.wi...=20130508100718

 

And compare it to Sally's original design from the pilot:

https://www.destruct...49-sonic.jpg');

 

I would've been fine with either one of these. They still look better than what has come out of the redesign.

 

Still, you gotta admit that the latter one blends in better with Sonic's cartoonish design.

 

 

 

Not really. Some artists were downright awful at drawing her.

 

http://i.imgur.com/rkUZX8z.png

http://i.imgur.com/lDfjS.png

http://i.imgur.com/5sSQL.png

 

 

The only picture that looks like trash is the first one. And that's just because of bad drawing. Should've never been hired. Of course skill plays a role in depicting something correctly, but it doesn't necessarily deter from the original concept just because someone decided to take artistic liberties... In that one she looks like she's got a super serious mullet and stoned out of her FN mind. Her eyes aren't even done in that feminine style that she's supposed to have. Of course she looks awful.

 

Not even the ones with Sally's disturbing "kissy face" closeup or the stiff-looking art of the 3rd one?

 

There were only a handful of artists which I felt were adept at drawing Sally in those days, but most of them were pretty bad. And sadly, most of those hired artists were professionals from other comicbook companies. It says a lot when drawing realistic humans is an easier job than drawing simplistic anthropomorphic animals.

 

 

 

I can think of a better reason why you don't like the latter, and that's personal preference.

 

You're constantly trying to even the playing field by busting my stance on the issue down to a mere opinion. Alright fine – the only thing I 'prefer' is that it be the same character.... It's not the same character. This is more than just some simple “I like/dislike this” at first glance, no thought put into it.

 

In the end, your preference is still the deciding factor. You can try to elaborate, but it's still going to be coming from your own feelings.

 

Same thing for me and my tastes.

 

 

Okay, let me try putting it this way.... You can (and I've seen it done), make a more fitting Sally for the Sonic Adventure art style (which is only sonic made more anime anyway) that looks pretty much like the original Sally. You may need to browse DA a bit more, I've seen it done a hell of a lot of times – I think a few times by a person named awesomeblossompossom. Again, I don't dislike the idea of them being made to fit in with the Sega Sonic art direction. There's no problem there. I don't necessarily have to mind the putting on clothes. There's a reason I don't dislike the Bunnie redesign you know.

 

https://rotalice2.de...-time-702595895

 

Check it. Sally on the far end. Just pretend that this was in SA artstyle, and you pretty much have what I would've redesigned Sally to look like.

 

Ew. Sorry, but realistic physiques are not my cup of tea. And there are too many details.

 

I can see that this is the artist's distinct style, but I don't see it as passing as an SA-styled redesign.

 

 

Now this took forever to find, but I'm glad I did -

 

https://catbeecache....-Blue-678068598

 

Now you tell me, does that head and face look like it would be too out of place in the current Sonic universe, especially if it was combined with a different costume like the one I mentioned above, and with SA proportions?

 

Hell, I just found this:

 

https://veggiemadnes...t/001-654880382

 

Also does the source material justice. How haven't you come across any of these?

 

I've seen those, and they're much more preferable than the first example you posted since they're drawn simplistic. The physique and eyes are much closer to how SEGA's renditions are.

 

The only problem is that there might still be too many liberties taken in the design. The furry checks, strands of realistic hair, and the prominent eyebrows are features that might not fly with the style SEGA deems appropriate.

 

 

 

 

As I said before, not all designs translate well into 3D. I mean, it wouldn't work for SatAM Sally either:

https://pre00.devian...ios-d916b5r.png

 

 

>_> I see your redesign Sally and raise you....

 

https://lemurfeature...-3D-1-699526472

 

How's that? :3

 

Yuck! Looks like a 3D rendition of Archie's sexed-up Sally from the comic's Dark Age that's on the verge of melting.

 

Again, not my cup of tea.

 

 

 

No.

 

I really hoped you were....

 

Not much else to say other than "Oh well."

 

 

 

What about a skilled tennis player with lightsaber blades that can cut through solid steel? That sounds pretty badass.

 

She'd get shot.

 

So would Amy, Tails, Rouge, and most of the Chaotix. They possess no super speed or teleporting powers to avoid getting shot at, but they manage to do just fine on their own.

 

 

 

If they can have both sillier and serious-toned shows with hardly any complaints, I don't see why Sonic can't also have one as well.

 

If Sega allowed us to have our unaffected Satam alongside comics meant solely for promoting their games, I wouldn't even be commenting about this.

 

And they did, for while. The show flopped, but the comics continued on for a good long while, providing a more interesting alternative to those not satisfied with the games.

 

 

 

I said Sonic is for a general audience; I didn't say it was exclusively for kids. Anyone of any age can watch stuff like Winnie the Pooh or Darkwing Duck and still get some enjoyment out of it. Likewise, Sonic is no different.

 

You'll have to excuse me when I don't comprehend. It's murder for me to do all this quote editing. I probably won't reply in good time like I have been for a while because I haven't come up with a method for typing in this text editor reply feature that saves me any kind of time.

 

Anyway, basically, I think you can achieve a good creation without the need to offend either party (the young'uns or the older players/readers/watchers). It comes with making a series that doesn't mix and match polarizing elements. Not to mention, Pooh and Duck don't do that much at all. Pooh is obviously meant for kids, while, Duck is meant for a range between kids and early teens. And wierdly enough, neither one of them have any cringe that I've witnessed.

 

SatAM had polarizing elements as well, yet it managed to get maintain a sizable following because it found a decent mixture of the two. The same thing happened with the "Adventure" games - integrating lighthearted, alien concepts into a plot-heavy narrative with some dark elements. It's basically a B-movie story or an action/adventure pulp novel.

 

When that balance is pushed to one of its extremes, that's when problems start to occur. Make the series too lighthearted and its deemed for kids with no investment; lean too far into darker elements and the series looks confused and offputting. That's what companies like Disney try to understand and succeed at (for the most part), finding a good balance.

 

Of course, they also have their shares of flaws - "Quack Pack" and "My Friends Tigger & Pooh" are some of the more infamous creations they did. The first tried being too 'hip n' edgy' that it became obnoxious to watch, and the latter was too saccharine and dumbed down for older audiences to find interesting.

 

 

 

She's not bald, she's furry.

 

 

Well, in a transition from furry to human, as the hair recedes into their skin, what parts do you think are going to go bald first? That's the general standard you go by to figure out what a character would look like if they were human, so “technically” yes, she IS bald in the front and on top. She's got the kusarageddo hair going on a bit.

 

Perhaps she has a smooth top that flows down the back of her head.

 

I mean, if I were to take that into account, Tails should also be 'bald' since he only as three single strands of hair atop his dome. And Sonic's would be in the process of balding since all his 'hair' would be growing off the sides of his head.

 

 

 

What? Weren't we talking about people we didn't want to socialize with?

 

Lol, no? At least I wasn't.

 

Weren't you the one talking about those teens that wore their hair differently earlier? The ones you called "aesthetically displeasing" because it generates "depressing feelings"?

 

 

 

Sally has gotten a lot of flack for being nude, despite having fur and wearing a vest and boots, so they had her wear clothes that would conceal her bareness while still keeping it within character.

 

They should stop catering to scrubs.

 

Ooh... Touchy.

 

 

 

Antoine's uniform was removed since male Mobian characters typically have less clothing. Plus, it was (unfortunately) tied to Penders because he gave it a backstory that can no longer be addressed.

 

So the answer was to allow Penders to STEAL what was originally theirs and let him claim ownership? Wow

 

Well, they weren't allowed to address it any further, so they had to ditch it.

 

It wouldn't be the only thing Penders claimed. Neither Sally, Rotor, nor Antoine can refer to their parents by name since they're associated with Penders' creations.

 

 

 

And Rotor, well... fans got tired of him always being a minor character. So instead of regulating him to the background, they had him beefed up so that he can partake in the action.

They could've made him similar to that professor looking guy from GitS. Doesn't go out doing much of anything, but important all the same.

 

Isn't that Uncle Chuck's role? I think we've already got plenty of mentor figures.

 

 

No one can put a copyright on nanomachines. It's a general concept.  They're allowing Penders to get away with murder.

 

I know, but he was the one who introduced the concept into the series through his character E.V.E..

 

If nanites are to be brought back, it would have to be through a different introduction.

 

 

 

Some people prefer the more cartoony style. I myself do.

 

Cartoony doesn't have to mean less detailed.

 

No, but the problem with extensive details is that they can be distracting, easily getting in the way of something trying to be emphasized.

 

Sonic takes a lot of influence from classic cartoons, so it makes sense for him to follow some of their rules of appeal - whether it'd be dark or lighthearted in tone. Overly excessive details are often reserved for stuff like background art to make the simple characters pop out more (or vice-versa), or to emphasize something that looks weird or out of place.

 

 

 

While I agree that the postmodern movement can be incredibly pretentious for the wrong reasons, I still don't see anything wrong with having a distinct style. If all art looked the same, it would be boring.

 

No one's arguing that there's something wrong with having a distinct style. You can have that distinct style just by drawing. You don't have to help matters along by being lazy(er) and making a mess and calling it art.

 

As I said, "pretentious for the wrong reasons." Espcially if it hurts their style.

 

 

 

No, it wouldn't have worked. It clashes too much against Sonic's simple style.

 

I think you really need to check Deviant Art more. A lot of you guys seem so secretive and set in your ways when opening up could do you a lot more good. It almost looks like I'm the only member around here these days that have their contact info open and out there to chatted with. No one has said shit to me these entire like, what, 3 years, and it has nothing to do with me not getting along with the Scrubs of Mobius (despite my never having said anything to any of them save one person). If you haven't seen a Sally Acorn art piece that embodies the original sally design while being in line with Sonic Adventure's art style, I think you're being way to reserved.

 

I have a plethora of art featuring Sally Acorn on my favorites. And I speak frequently with quite a number of people on Deviantart (I'm currently collaborating on a project with one).

[ShenFNWoo]

 

Back then. Granted, the changes they were assigned weren't as extensive as today's PC climate, but it's always been around.

 

I don't know man.  I've noticed next to no changes. Everything I saw on TV remained on TV.  Everything I read in comics (I wasn't a hardcore comic nerd so take that into consideration) stayed in the comics.  Examples of "toning it down", plz?

 

 

Still, you gotta admit that the latter one blends in better with Sonic's cartoonish design.

 

By an insignificant smidge...

 

 

Not even the ones with Sally's disturbing "kissy face" closeup or the stiff-looking art of the 3rd one?

 

I pretty much figured it was the lips that turned you off about that.  If they weren't there, you'd probably not have an issue with it. 

 

It's not that I LIKE either picture, it's just not so horrible that I can't immediately tell it's sally.

 

It says a lot when drawing realistic humans is an easier job than drawing simplistic anthropomorphic animals.

 

 

You'd be amazed how hard it is to draw out of your element.  I've found it quite a chore trying to draw the Freedom fighters.  I mean, look at my original character the flying squirel dude.  That took a shitload of trial and error.....  When I can practically draw full body anatomy accurate commissions.

 

 

In the end, your preference is still the deciding factor. You can try to elaborate, but it's still going to be coming from your own feelings.

 

Same thing for me and my tastes.

 

Okay, how to word this.....  A chair should be immediately recognizable as a chair, or it fails as a concept to convey that simple idea.  I have not once denied the idea that they should look like official Sega characters at this point, so I'm not even clashing with your opinion, I'm incorporating it.  I've said that it is possible to combine the styles without either one of them losing recognition on any level.  This is a point of reference making this an objective observation - i.e. from an artistic perspective regarding quality and aspect loss, being more than just a simple opinion. 

 

The fact that it's a feeling is moot at this point.  Neither one of us would be here if we had no feelings on the subject, but just because we are doesn't mean they have the same amount of thought put into them.  Had we been arguing over a flavor with no other way to describe it but "delicious" and "disgusting", you'd be absolutely correct in the equivalence.

 

Ew. Sorry, but realistic physiques are not my cup of tea. And there are too many details.

 

I can see that this is the artist's distinct style, but I don't see it as passing as an SA-styled redesign.

 

You're getting sidetracked.  The outfit itself with the style of Sally I can tolerate is the only reason I posted that.  I told you to imagine it in SA style, and you can do whatever simplifications you want so long as it remains the same outfit.  Now with that in mind, tell me what you would think about that.

 

I've seen those, and they're much more preferable than the first example you posted since they're drawn simplistic. The physique and eyes are much closer to how SEGA's renditions are.

 

The only problem is that there might still be too many liberties taken in the design. The furry checks, strands of realistic hair, and the prominent eyebrows are features that might not fly with the style SEGA deems appropriate.

 

 

Well yeah, alterations can be made.  There's not a whole lot that needs to be done, by your own admission here.

 

Yuck! Looks like a 3D rendition of Archie's sexed-up Sally from the comic's Dark Age that's on the verge of melting.

 

Again, not my cup of tea.

 

 

Again, you're missing the point.  You said that she as her original self couldn't be done very well in a 3D style.  I just completely obliterated that notion. 

 

 

So would Amy, Tails, Rouge, and most of the Chaotix. They possess no super speed or teleporting powers to avoid getting shot at, but they manage to do just fine on their own.

 

We were talking about how one could be dressed to look like they're meant for action, but *shrug*  I suppose.

 

And they did, for while. The show flopped, but the comics continued on for a good long while, providing a more interesting alternative to those not satisfied with the games.

 

 

That was due to no fault of the show's own.  You try putting your own cartoon against 1990's power rangers when they were at their prime and see if you don't get canceled in a single season.

 

 

SatAM had polarizing elements as well, yet it managed to get maintain a sizable following because it found a decent mixture of the two. The same thing happened with the "Adventure" games - integrating lighthearted, alien concepts into a plot-heavy narrative with some dark elements. It's basically a B-movie story or an action/adventure pulp novel.

 

You'll have to point out some.  It's been a long time for me.  The amount of cringe in it was acceptable to me, because the overall amount of awesome made up for it.

 

 

Perhaps she has a smooth top that flows down the back of her head.

 

But where's her hairline

 

I mean, if I were to take that into account, Tails should also be 'bald' since he only as three single strands of hair atop his dome. And Sonic's would be in the process of balding since all his 'hair' would be growing off the sides of his head.

 

Quills /= hair.  Besides, Blaze's is more obviously made out to be hair so you'd expect something in the front.

 

 

Weren't you the one talking about those teens that wore their hair differently earlier? The ones you called "aesthetically displeasing" because it generates "depressing feelings"?

 

I was actually talking about raggedy kids that would run into the store while I was busy at the arcade, with simple barrettes in their hair, which was nothing more than a simple fix for mothers not to need to style their hair.  It was lazy, and would look bad for any character in a story to wear, and would make you feel sorry for them.  You ever see Bebe's Kids?  I grew up in lots of that.

[RedAuthar]

Actually the Quills do equal hair.  Almost every version of Sonic, he treats his quills like his hairdo.  The only time he hasn't really was the games.  

[LogiTeeka]

 

 

Back then. Granted, the changes they were assigned weren't as extensive as today's PC climate, but it's always been around.

 

I don't know man.  I've noticed next to no changes. Everything I saw on TV remained on TV.  Everything I read in comics (I wasn't a hardcore comic nerd so take that into consideration) stayed in the comics.  Examples of "toning it down", plz?

 

That's hard for me to note since I hadn't grown up with the original show (I watched "X-Men: Evolution" back then). Most of my information came from some sorta blog article I recall reading a while back which compared the changes between seasons, but I can't seem to find it now.

 

I do know that the comics went through a considerable number of changes throughout its run though, so maybe I'm remembering that instead.

 

 

 

 

Still, you gotta admit that the latter one blends in better with Sonic's cartoonish design.

 

By an insignificant smidge...

 

It doesn't look that insignificant to me. Especially compared to some of her later renditions.

 

 

 

Not even the ones with Sally's disturbing "kissy face" closeup or the stiff-looking art of the 3rd one?

 

I pretty much figured it was the lips that turned you off about that.  If they weren't there, you'd probably not have an issue with it.

 

No, it would still look awful. It's just too derpy-looking.

 

 

It's not that I LIKE either picture, it's just not so horrible that I can't immediately tell it's sally.

 

Not to me. It looks like a bad cosplay.

 

 

You'd be amazed how hard it is to draw out of your element.  I've found it quite a chore trying to draw the Freedom fighters.  I mean, look at my original character the flying squirel dude.  That took a shitload of trial and error.....  When I can practically draw full body anatomy accurate commissions.

 

Where can I find this?

 

I notice some elements might be easier to draw depending on what your major influences were.

 

 

 

In the end, your preference is still the deciding factor. You can try to elaborate, but it's still going to be coming from your own feelings.

 

Same thing for me and my tastes.

 

Okay, how to word this.....  A chair should be immediately recognizable as a chair, or it fails as a concept to convey that simple idea.  I have not once denied the idea that they should look like official Sega characters at this point, so I'm not even clashing with your opinion, I'm incorporating it.  I've said that it is possible to combine the styles without either one of them losing recognition on any level.  This is a point of reference making this an objective observation - i.e. from an artistic perspective regarding quality and aspect loss, being more than just a simple opinion. 

 

The fact that it's a feeling is moot at this point.  Neither one of us would be here if we had no feelings on the subject, but just because we are doesn't mean they have the same amount of thought put into them.  Had we been arguing over a flavor with no other way to describe it but "delicious" and "disgusting", you'd be absolutely correct in the equivalence.

 

The thing is though, a chair can be a great many different things. We know it's meant to be sat on, but it can be a wooden chair, a rocking chair, an office chair, picnic chair, a bar stool, a footstool, a lavished throne, etc. The problem is deciding which chair is most appropriate given the situation. In the end, you can convey that it's indeed a chair, but it's still going to be the type you chose to draw.

 

That's the problem with trying to solidify something that has little-to-no concrete (on account of it being fictional).

 

 

 

 

Ew. Sorry, but realistic physiques are not my cup of tea. And there are too many details.

 

I can see that this is the artist's distinct style, but I don't see it as passing as an SA-styled redesign.

 

You're getting sidetracked.  The outfit itself with the style of Sally I can tolerate is the only reason I posted that.  I told you to imagine it in SA style, and you can do whatever simplifications you want so long as it remains the same outfit.  Now with that in mind, tell me what you would think about that.

 

The outfit by itself isn't bad (even though if it's a bit complex), but it's not like SEGA is going to use it as a basis.

 

 

Again, you're missing the point.  You said that she as her original self couldn't be done very well in a 3D style.  I just completely obliterated that notion. 

 

 

No, that didn't look like a faithful 3D recreation of her original design at all. 

 

It looked more reminiscent of her 'sexed-up portrayal' phase at Archie:

https://vignette2.wi...=20121212081306

 

 

 

So would Amy, Tails, Rouge, and most of the Chaotix. They possess no super speed or teleporting powers to avoid getting shot at, but they manage to do just fine on their own.

 

We were talking about how one could be dressed to look like they're meant for action, but *shrug*  I suppose.

 

Considering most of them don't wear clothes (minus shoes and gloves), I don't think it matters much.

 

 

 

And they did, for while. The show flopped, but the comics continued on for a good long while, providing a more interesting alternative to those not satisfied with the games.

 

That was due to no fault of the show's own.  You try putting your own cartoon against 1990's power rangers when they were at their prime and see if you don't get canceled in a single season.

 

It wasn't just a rivalry with Power Rangers, the ABC network had a really awful time schedule for the show, swapping it and other shows with sports broadcasts. And it only got worse when the channel was acquired by Disney, who decided just to have a clean slate.

 

 

 

SatAM had polarizing elements as well, yet it managed to get maintain a sizable following because it found a decent mixture of the two. The same thing happened with the "Adventure" games - integrating lighthearted, alien concepts into a plot-heavy narrative with some dark elements. It's basically a B-movie story or an action/adventure pulp novel.

 

You'll have to point out some.  It's been a long time for me.  The amount of cringe in it was acceptable to me, because the overall amount of awesome made up for it.

 

Well, you had colorful, weird environments sharing its space with realistic-looking locals, which established that there were certain locations across the planet that were very alien in appearance compared to others. Heck, even some of the more realistic locals had odd elements to them - unfinished highways with loopty-loops, gigantic buildings that tower over the rest of the city, a futuristic theme park resort, casinos with giant pinball stages, pyramids built in quicksand inhabited by ghosts, a seaside city with a monstrous truck, etc.

 

You also had GUN (Guardian Units of the Nations) having advanced robot soldiers and drones, so it wasn't just Eggman who had advanced technology. You also had the Chao garden resorts, which looked like something straight out of "Animal Crossing". Some of the animals you rescued were also weird - you had dragons, unicorns, phoenixes, zombie-dogs, and gill-men. And if "Heroes" is any indication, you got even crazier stuff sharing the same world as a speedy blue anthropomorphic hedgehog.

 

 

 

Perhaps she has a smooth top that flows down the back of her head.

 

But where's her hairline

 

Why would it be visible? She's covered with it.

 

 

 

I mean, if I were to take that into account, Tails should also be 'bald' since he only as three single strands of hair atop his dome. And Sonic's would be in the process of balding since all his 'hair' would be growing off the sides of his head.

 

Quills /= hair.  Besides, Blaze's is more obviously made out to be hair so you'd expect something in the front.

 

Actually, they are. They're both made of keratin; quills are just thicker.

 

And why would she need hair at the front? She's already covered in fur.

 

 

 

Weren't you the one talking about those teens that wore their hair differently earlier? The ones you called "aesthetically displeasing" because it generates "depressing feelings"?

 

I was actually talking about raggedy kids that would run into the store while I was busy at the arcade, with simple barrettes in their hair, which was nothing more than a simple fix for mothers not to need to style their hair.  It was lazy, and would look bad for any character in a story to wear, and would make you feel sorry for them.  You ever see Bebe's Kids?  I grew up in lots of that.

 

Considering the length of her hair, I think barretting her hair is more of a chore for Blaze.

 

Weighing her royal status, I'm beginning to think her style has a more of a Japanese influence.

[ShenFNWoo]

It doesn't look that insignificant to me. Especially compared to some of her later renditions.

 

 

If that's the case you're being critically specific....

 

 

No, it would still look awful. It's just too derpy-looking.

 

 

Well after photoediting it I can tell you for a fact that her eyes are looking in the right direction.  Her hair is obscuring the shape, so there's that.  And after reading your entire reply and listening to your reasons, you just don't like anything that resembles human qualities, so there's this huge bias you've got there, and you're elevating that to the level of criticism. 

 

Not to me. It looks like a bad cosplay.

 

 

Yep.  "I don't like it" is overpowering recognition.

 

Where can I find this?

 

I notice some elements might be easier to draw depending on what your major influences were.

 

 

You won't like it because it's realistic in proportions . 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Holy shit that picture is big D: )

 

The thing is though, a chair can be a great many different things. We know it's meant to be sat on, but it can be a wooden chair, a rocking chair, an office chair, picnic chair, a bar stool, a footstool, a lavished throne, etc. The problem is deciding which chair is most appropriate given the situation. In the end, you can convey that it's indeed a chair, but it's still going to be the type you chose to draw.

 

That's the problem with trying to solidify something that has little-to-no concrete (on account of it being fictional).

 

 

 

All of the examples that you provided are obvious chairs.  The point is that you recognize it immediately.  I'd be afraid to sit in something that looks say, like this:  https://cdn.homedit....design1.jpg  Maybe if I saw it in person it would look more like a chair to me, but right now it looks too much like a sculpture, and I would think someone was joking if they told me to sit on it.

 

In regards to Sally, it shouldn't require all that much effort to incorporate elements from her original design into the new one to make her appear as herself.  What we got is an imposter.

 

 

The outfit by itself isn't bad (even though if it's a bit complex), but it's not like SEGA is going to use it as a basis.

 

 

Even with it simplified?  Sounds quite SPECIFIC

 

No, that didn't look like a faithful 3D recreation of her original design at all.

 

 

So long as the face is accurate then the rest can go to hell as far as I'm concerned - I'm no fan of the body he made either, she's got quite an ass and thick legs for absolutely no FN reason.  I should make that apparent next time.  It's close enough to the original, that's all I care about: 

 

 

It looked more reminiscent of her 'sexed-up portrayal' phase at Archie:

https://vignette2.wi...=20121212081306

 

"Sexed up".  Wow, someone's conservative.  I'll use that word to point out times when she's in obviously compromised positions.

 

It wasn't just a rivalry with Power Rangers, the ABC network had a really awful time schedule for the show, swapping it and other shows with sports broadcasts. And it only got worse when the channel was acquired by Disney, who decided just to have a clean slate.

 

 

You're illustrating my point.

 

Well, you had colorful, weird environments sharing its space with realistic-looking locals, which established that there were certain locations across the planet that were very alien in appearance compared to others. Heck, even some of the more realistic locals had odd elements to them - unfinished highways with loopty-loops, gigantic buildings that tower over the rest of the city, a futuristic theme park resort, casinos with giant pinball stages, pyramids built in quicksand inhabited by ghosts, a seaside city with a monstrous truck, etc.

 

You also had GUN (Guardian Units of the Nations) having advanced robot soldiers and drones, so it wasn't just Eggman who had advanced technology. You also had the Chao garden resorts, which looked like something straight out of "Animal Crossing". Some of the animals you rescued were also weird - you had dragons, unicorns, phoenixes, zombie-dogs, and gill-men. And if "Heroes" is any indication, you got even crazier stuff sharing the same world as a speedy blue anthropomorphic hedgehog.

 

 

You just described the original Sonic games and Sonic Adventure, not Satam. 

 

Why would it be visible? She's covered with it.

 

 

Same reason her hair is visible in the back! 

 

 

Actually, they are. They're both made of keratin; quills are just thicker.

 

*Sigh*  Fine.  You win that one.

 

And why would she need hair at the front? She's already covered in fur.

 

 

Why would she need hair in the back!  She's already covered in fur 

 

 

Considering the length of her hair, I think barretting her hair is more of a chore for Blaze.

 

I didn't mean literally.  I'm just saying it looks like she did. 

[LogiTeeka]

 

It doesn't look that insignificant to me. Especially compared to some of her later renditions.

 

If that's the case you're being critically specific....

 

No, really. There is a noticeable difference, and it's not just the pink fur.

 

Aside from the large head, the pilot design had a very simple body that was vaguely feminine and her limbs were drawn in a cartoonish way.

https://pre00.devian..._jowywhiteh.png

 

It looks exaggerated enough to be set in the same world when paired with Sonic, who shares some stylistic similarities.

https://www.destruct...49-sonic.jpg');

 

In the final show though, Sonic retained his cartoonish appearance while Sally was upgraded to look more realistic:

http://info.sonicret...c-and-Sally.jpg

 

If Sonic were given a similar redesign, I would imagine he'd look something like this:

https://cdn.vox-cdn....ic_sketch.0.jpg

 

 

 

No, it would still look awful. It's just too derpy-looking.

 

 

Well after photoediting it I can tell you for a fact that her eyes are looking in the right direction.  Her hair is obscuring the shape, so there's that.  And after reading your entire reply and listening to your reasons, you just don't like anything that resembles human qualities, so there's this huge bias you've got there, and you're elevating that to the level of criticism. 

 

I don't hate characters that have human-like qualities, I just think it's distracting when certain characters contrast too much with a certain style. It's like pairing Daffy Duck with Bambi - one is only slightly cartoonish in appearance while the other is really obvious. It's kinda distracting for me; you have to pick and choose one or the other.

 

 

 

Where can I find this?

 

I notice some elements might be easier to draw depending on what your major influences were.

 

You won't like it because it's realistic in proportions . 

 

 

No, that's not bad at all. If anything, it has a style of its own.

 

I mean, if it were meant to be a Sonic character, that would be really off. But this character looks like he could be from his own series.

 

 

 

The thing is though, a chair can be a great many different things. We know it's meant to be sat on, but it can be a wooden chair, a rocking chair, an office chair, picnic chair, a bar stool, a footstool, a lavished throne, etc. The problem is deciding which chair is most appropriate given the situation. In the end, you can convey that it's indeed a chair, but it's still going to be the type you chose to draw.

 

That's the problem with trying to solidify something that has little-to-no concrete (on account of it being fictional).

 

 

 

All of the examples that you provided are obvious chairs.  The point is that you recognize it immediately.  I'd be afraid to sit in something that looks say, like this:  https://cdn.homedit....design1.jpg  Maybe if I saw it in person it would look more like a chair to me, but right now it looks too much like a sculpture, and I would think someone was joking if they told me to sit on it.

 

In regards to Sally, it shouldn't require all that much effort to incorporate elements from her original design into the new one to make her appear as herself.  What we got is an imposter.

 

I think the link is broken.

 

The problem is that some of the traits you associate with Sally's design aren't compatible with SEGA's style of choice. The sexier body, the eyebrows, the thicker head of hair, the bushy cheeks, etc. The best they could do was get her most recognizable traits (red hair/fur, short tail, blue eyes, eye mask, blue clothing) and put them on a SEGA character template that seemed closest to her character.

 

However, if I had free reign with the character design, this is how I would've drawn her:

https://orig00.devia...eka-d5q3lwl.png

 

 

 

The outfit by itself isn't bad (even though if it's a bit complex), but it's not like SEGA is going to use it as a basis.

 

Even with it simplified?  Sounds quite SPECIFIC

 

Well, there are some really odd accessories. I mean, just what are those things on her boots? Armored plating?

 

 

 

No, that didn't look like a faithful 3D recreation of her original design at all.

 

So long as the face is accurate then the rest can go to hell as far as I'm concerned - I'm no fan of the body he made either, she's got quite an ass and thick legs for absolutely no FN reason.  I should make that apparent next time.  It's close enough to the original, that's all I care about: 

 

Okay, I'll admit those facial expressions are pretty impressive.

 

But I still wouldn't call it the SatAM style. This looks a lot more like the artist's own style.

 

 

 

 

It looked more reminiscent of her 'sexed-up portrayal' phase at Archie:

https://vignette2.wi...=20121212081306

 

"Sexed up".  Wow, someone's conservative.  I'll use that word to point out times when she's in obviously compromised positions.

 

No, I mean they tried pushing Sally's sensuous side to the most extreme, to the point where it looked ridiculous. It looked like they drew over an exaggerated superheroine model and slapped Sally's head onto it.

 

 

 

Well, you had colorful, weird environments sharing its space with realistic-looking locals, which established that there were certain locations across the planet that were very alien in appearance compared to others. Heck, even some of the more realistic locals had odd elements to them - unfinished highways with loopty-loops, gigantic buildings that tower over the rest of the city, a futuristic theme park resort, casinos with giant pinball stages, pyramids built in quicksand inhabited by ghosts, a seaside city with a monstrous truck, etc.

 

You also had GUN (Guardian Units of the Nations) having advanced robot soldiers and drones, so it wasn't just Eggman who had advanced technology. You also had the Chao garden resorts, which looked like something straight out of "Animal Crossing". Some of the animals you rescued were also weird - you had dragons, unicorns, phoenixes, zombie-dogs, and gill-men. And if "Heroes" is any indication, you got even crazier stuff sharing the same world as a speedy blue anthropomorphic hedgehog.

 

 

You just described the original Sonic games and Sonic Adventure, not Satam. 

 

I thought you were referring to the latter.

 

SatAM had really weird elements for what was meant to be a bleak cyberpunk dystopian world. Aside from Sonic (who is an anomaly of his very own), you also had a machine that turned living creatures into robots, a little man with an extremely long nose, a goofy dragon that breathes both fire and ice, a wizard with a magical computer, another more bestial wizard trapped in a weird pocket dimension, a strange substance found underground that can make mere saplings grow instantly into full-grown trees, a herd of intelligent elephant-like dinosaurs, a pinball-themed fortress, a floating island with a temple restraining time-warping magical stones, and a series of radiant stones that can make the users seemingly invincible.

 

There might've been more that I'm forgetting, but those are some pretty fantastical elements as well. And I didn't mention some of the more weirder minor stuff.

 

 

 

Why would it be visible? She's covered with it.

 

Same reason her hair is visible in the back! 

 

Maybe it's just longer in the back. Some cats have that.

 

 

 

 

Considering the length of her hair, I think barretting her hair is more of a chore for Blaze.

 

I didn't mean literally.  I'm just saying it looks like she did.

 

Since her position in her native world is left quite vague, we can either assume she does it herself or she relies on someone else's help. We know that she's a banished princess due to her pyrokinesis, so it's likely she probably did it herself.

 

At least, that's my take, judging by her nature before she met Sonic and Cream.

[ShenFNWoo]

No, really. There is a noticeable difference, and it's not just the pink fur.

 

Aside from the large head, the pilot design had a very simple body that was vaguely feminine and her limbs were drawn in a cartoonish way.

https://pre00.devian..._jowywhiteh.png

 

It looks exaggerated enough to be set in the same world when paired with Sonic, who shares some stylistic similarities.

https://www.destruct...49-sonic.jpg');

 

In the final show though, Sonic retained his cartoonish appearance while Sally was upgraded to look more realistic:

http://info.sonicret...c-and-Sally.jpg

 

 

I see only slight differences where Sally seems a bit more pudgy, where she's more fitting with Sonic because he's the same way, and he really shouldn't be.  I'm well aware that I'm nitpicking at times, but I think you should also consider you're being the same way.

 

If Sonic were given a similar redesign, I would imagine he'd look something like this:

https://cdn.vox-cdn....ic_sketch.0.jpg

 

 

That is a stretch worse than I've ever seen Goatse achieve

 

It's kinda distracting for me; you have to pick and choose one or the other.

 

 

Except the contrast in some of the things I'm talking about are no where near that great.

 

 

No, that's not bad at all. If anything, it has a style of its own.

 

I mean, if it were meant to be a Sonic character, that would be really off. But this character looks like he could be from his own series.

 

Well I draw Sonic in the series the same exact way. 

 

 

 

I think the link is broken.

 

 

 

The problem is that some of the traits you associate with Sally's design aren't compatible with SEGA's style of choice. The sexier body, the eyebrows, the thicker head of hair, the bushy cheeks, etc. The best they could do was get her most recognizable traits (red hair/fur, short tail, blue eyes, eye mask, blue clothing) and put them on a SEGA character template that seemed closest to her character.

 

Sega this, Sega that, Sega this, Sega that.  Starting to pess me off (hoped that sounded Irish).  Okay forget it, I'll just draw the damned thing.  You seem to need an outright example or visual aid of how this thing can work.  I think I've mentioned a million times that I'm satisfied with just her head itself being transplanted onto a Sega styled body, and adjusted to look more Sonic Adventure-like, but screw it, I have to draw it.  Get back to you on this particular point when it's finished.

 

 

However, if I had free reign with the character design, this is how I would've drawn her:

https://orig00.devia...eka-d5q3lwl.png

 

 

That's a nice OC you got there.  She's got Sally's boots, they could be best buds.

 

 

Well, there are some really odd accessories. I mean, just what are those things on her boots? Armored plating?

 

I didn't notice.  You can just simplify them out.  It's that easy.

 

 

Okay, I'll admit those facial expressions are pretty impressive.

 

But I still wouldn't call it the SatAM style. This looks a lot more like the artist's own style.

 

You seem to take things at face value and don't apply broader application.  If this guy can get this close to the original Sally from Satam, what makes you think he, or anyone else for that matter, can't make spot on version?

 

 

No, I mean they tried pushing Sally's sensuous side to the most extreme, to the point where it looked ridiculous. It looked like they drew over an exaggerated superheroine model and slapped Sally's head onto it.

 

Or they simply wanted to move away from noodle arms and legs.  Didn't they give Sonic the same treatment at times?

 

 

thought you were referring to the latter.

 

SatAM had really weird elements for what was meant to be a bleak cyberpunk dystopian world. Aside from Sonic (who is an anomaly of his very own), you also had a machine that turned living creatures into robots, a little man with an extremely long nose, a goofy dragon that breathes both fire and ice, a wizard with a magical computer, another more bestial wizard trapped in a weird pocket dimension, a strange substance found underground that can make mere saplings grow instantly into full-grown trees, a herd of intelligent elephant-like dinosaurs, a pinball-themed fortress, a floating island with a temple restraining time-warping magical stones, and a series of radiant stones that can make the users seemingly invincible.

 

I was actually looking for elements that clash terribly, like the themes of an obvious children's cartoon battling that of one that's targeting an older audience.  Imagine Sonic walking into the Chao garden, and playing with them like babies and tots for 5 minutes, and then Yakko and Dot pull their famous "Finger Prince" line, and then you'll have something along the lines I'm looking for.

[LogiTeeka]

 

No, really. There is a noticeable difference, and it's not just the pink fur.

 

Aside from the large head, the pilot design had a very simple body that was vaguely feminine and her limbs were drawn in a cartoonish way.

https://pre00.devian..._jowywhiteh.png

 

It looks exaggerated enough to be set in the same world when paired with Sonic, who shares some stylistic similarities.

https://www.destruct...49-sonic.jpg');

 

In the final show though, Sonic retained his cartoonish appearance while Sally was upgraded to look more realistic:

http://info.sonicret...c-and-Sally.jpg

 

 

I see only slight differences where Sally seems a bit more pudgy, where she's more fitting with Sonic because he's the same way, and he really shouldn't be.  I'm well aware that I'm nitpicking at times, but I think you should also consider you're being the same way.

 

I'm just listing my reasons why I don't think the choice in direction works. But at the end of the day, we're all still nitpicking.

 

 

 

If Sonic were given a similar redesign, I would imagine he'd look something like this:

https://cdn.vox-cdn....ic_sketch.0.jpg

 

That is a stretch worse than I've ever seen Goatse achieve

 

I'm not gonna bother asking how you know that.

 

 

 

 

No, that's not bad at all. If anything, it has a style of its own.

 

I mean, if it were meant to be a Sonic character, that would be really off. But this character looks like he could be from his own series.

 

Well I draw Sonic in the series the same exact way. 

 

And that's one reason to be thankful for fanart.

 

 

 

I think the link is broken.

 

Eh. I'd still sit in it.

 

 

 

The problem is that some of the traits you associate with Sally's design aren't compatible with SEGA's style of choice. The sexier body, the eyebrows, the thicker head of hair, the bushy cheeks, etc. The best they could do was get her most recognizable traits (red hair/fur, short tail, blue eyes, eye mask, blue clothing) and put them on a SEGA character template that seemed closest to her character.

 

Sega this, Sega that, Sega this, Sega that.  Starting to pess me off (hoped that sounded Irish).  Okay forget it, I'll just draw the damned thing.  You seem to need an outright example or visual aid of how this thing can work.  I think I've mentioned a million times that I'm satisfied with just her head itself being transplanted onto a Sega styled body, and adjusted to look more Sonic Adventure-like, but screw it, I have to draw it.  Get back to you on this particular point when it's finished.

 

I'm not saying as an excuse, that's just simply the factor. As a fan artist, you're allowed to interpret the series however you wish, but under official contract, there are rules/guidelines to be followed.

 

For me, trying to be authentic is knowing what my boundaries are and what I can do within them.

 

 

 

However, if I had free reign with the character design, this is how I would've drawn her:

https://orig00.devia...eka-d5q3lwl.png

 

 

That's a nice OC you got there.  She's got Sally's boots, they could be best buds.

 

Well, she is a different version of the same character if that's what you mean.

 

 

 

Okay, I'll admit those facial expressions are pretty impressive.

 

But I still wouldn't call it the SatAM style. This looks a lot more like the artist's own style.

 

You seem to take things at face value and don't apply broader application.  If this guy can get this close to the original Sally from Satam, what makes you think he, or anyone else for that matter, can't make spot on version?

 

Honestly, I don't think they can. At least, not a 3D version that's both completely accurate and appealing to look at in 3D.

 

There are just some designs that tend to look better in 2D then they do in 3D. 2D tends to veer in a more simplistic direction while 3D is better at rendering things with greater amount of detail. That's the reason why so many CGI recreations of classic cartoon characters tend to look so off-putting since the medium doesn't suit their simplistic designs, and adding realistic details only makes it even more jarring.

 

Granted, you can make appealing simplistic characters in 3D and detailed designs in 2D, but it would take a lot of adjusting in the design to get it to look right since there are different rules at play.

 

 

No, I mean they tried pushing Sally's sensuous side to the most extreme, to the point where it looked ridiculous. It looked like they drew over an exaggerated superheroine model and slapped Sally's head onto it.

 

Or they simply wanted to move away from noodle arms and legs.  Didn't they give Sonic the same treatment at times?

 

Kinda. They tried giving him more realistic joints back then, but it looked really awkward and weird since Sonic's whole design was meant to be simplistic and cartoonish. It just looked jarring with those conjoined eyes and a large, lumpy head of quills.

 

If that was the direction they wanted to go in, they would've been better off giving him a different design. But I don't think SEGA would've sat well with it.

 

 

 

thought you were referring to the latter.

 

SatAM had really weird elements for what was meant to be a bleak cyberpunk dystopian world. Aside from Sonic (who is an anomaly of his very own), you also had a machine that turned living creatures into robots, a little man with an extremely long nose, a goofy dragon that breathes both fire and ice, a wizard with a magical computer, another more bestial wizard trapped in a weird pocket dimension, a strange substance found underground that can make mere saplings grow instantly into full-grown trees, a herd of intelligent elephant-like dinosaurs, a pinball-themed fortress, a floating island with a temple restraining time-warping magical stones, and a series of radiant stones that can make the users seemingly invincible.

 

I was actually looking for elements that clash terribly, like the themes of an obvious children's cartoon battling that of one that's targeting an older audience.  Imagine Sonic walking into the Chao garden, and playing with them like babies and tots for 5 minutes, and then Yakko and Dot pull their famous "Finger Prince" line, and then you'll have something along the lines I'm looking for.

 

Honestly, stuff like that rarely seems to happen in the Sonic series. The worst example that happened was SHtH, and it was criticized for that. I doubt that's a road SEGA would want to travel down again for a long while.

 

But in terms of the minor stuff, the closest I can think of are moments like Bunnie's "one-eyed snake" retort (though that was likely unintentional), Nack and Scourge swearing in the comics (which are censored in symbols), and the occasional gruesome death that's seldom shown onscreen. But that's hardly different from how more family-friendly brands like Disney handle their properties.

[ShenFNWoo]

Well, now I suppose all that's left to do is actually draw the picture.  You WILL see that Sally can retain her awesomeness.  You WILL see that it can be done.  You will.....SEE.....  By the way, do you read Sutter Kane?

 

 

*Looks at the string of posts*

 

*Shakes head*