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@  Ishapar : (14 December 2019 - 04:23 AM)

Not bad. Would be neat if my grandpa makes it that old.

@  Shadow : (12 December 2019 - 03:19 PM)

I hope I get to live to 93.

@  Wulfsbane : (11 December 2019 - 09:42 AM)

93

@  Ishapar : (09 December 2019 - 08:48 AM)

Shame to hear about that. How old was he?

@  RedG : (06 December 2019 - 06:04 PM)

Sorry to hear, Wulfsbane. My condolences.

@  Wulfsbane : (05 December 2019 - 10:43 PM)

My grandfather passed on the 17th.

@  chief : (30 November 2019 - 03:32 PM)

oh?

@  Wulfsbane : (28 November 2019 - 07:14 PM)

This year's Thanksgiving was a lot tougher than normal.

@  Wulfsbane : (28 November 2019 - 07:14 PM)

Same to you.

@  RedAuthar : (28 November 2019 - 03:47 PM)

Happy American Turkey Day

@  chief : (09 November 2019 - 02:20 PM)

http://www.sonicsatam.com/sea3on/

@  Shadow : (31 October 2019 - 10:44 AM)

H A P P Y H A L L O W E E N

@  Kev : (20 October 2019 - 02:19 PM)

Sally acorn painting you can try to follow along, needs re-voicing as its just me for now.

@  Kev : (20 October 2019 - 02:18 PM)

Made another cartoon episode, its a painting tutorial on youtube check out my channel= 2D 3D CARTOONS

@  Wulfsbane : (05 October 2019 - 11:05 PM)

Well the player base went up exponentially since the switch.

@  wildfire : (05 October 2019 - 08:39 PM)

Probably to help Bungie now that Activision's money isn't backing them.

@  Wulfsbane : (03 October 2019 - 06:33 AM)

Destiny made the move to Steam.

@  Wulfsbane : (09 September 2019 - 10:12 AM)

We'll probably see Tracer soon

@  Shadow : (06 September 2019 - 10:48 PM)

I'd rather see Mai in Smash

@  Wulfsbane : (06 September 2019 - 09:05 AM)

I'm more surprised about the Fatal Fury character.


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Sonic Nycc 2017 Idw Event Q&a+ian Flynn


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#1 FUS News Robot

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 01:44 PM




San Diego, CA (October 8, 2017) —  Sonic the Hedgehog™ and IDW Publishing are excited to reveal today that fan favorite scribe, Ian Flynn, has come on board to take the blue blur and his friends in a fresh, exciting direction.

“I’ve been a SEGA® kid for life, and Sonic has been my career for over a decade,” said Flynn. “I’m overjoyed to keep running with the little blue hedgehog, and especially excited to be expanding my relationship with IDW at the same time. I can’t wait to show you what I’m made of as we reach for the stars and explore the endless possibilities!”

“Ian has a strong connection with both the character and the fans so there was no hesitation in bringing him on to launch this new Sonic series,” said Sonic the Hedgehog editor Joe Hughes. “Not only is he a great writer, but he genuinely loves these characters. His pitches have been nothing short of amazing and we are very excited to get this out to the Sonic community who have been supportive from day one.”

“When we partnered with IDW a couple months back, Ian was undoubtedly our first choice to take the helm and scribe the new comic series,” said Michael Cisneros, Licensing Specialist at SEGA of America. “His uncanny knack for capturing the spirit of Sonic is evident not only in his work, but in the hearts of our very vocal and devoted fan base. We couldn’t be more pleased to have him setting the stage for many years of compelling storytelling.”

A new era of Sonic comics will begin next April with a four-week event. IDW will be moving at Sonic-like speeds to publish the first four issues of the new series in the span of four weeks. Those issues will be written by Flynn with a team of artists joining him to be announced at a later date.

 

  • Crossovers were asked. It will be a while. Maybe a year. They want to get the current series established first.

  • Previous writers coming back? “There may or may not be some creators you know and love”.

  • SEGA does impose certain “restrictions” on the characters, but the comics allow for the freedom to do things they can’t do in the games. Primary job is to “tell the best stories possible”.

  • The Freedom Fighters returning? “Stay tuned”. They’re aware of the demand, though.

  • The comics will start completely fresh with issue #1.

  • “We’re specifically making this world built in a world IDW controls separate from the games”. Aaron is at the event. He added more to say there might be occasional tie-in with a game, but stay tuned.

  • They made a big deal about the comics being a fresh start with characters and they’re telling brand new stories. It was their answer to multiple questions.

  • Modern Sonic is the focus. No multiple versions of Sonic running around, including Classic Sonic.

  • SEGA’s restrictions are not that high. They just want to make sure that they do things properly without jumping the shark.

  • IDW’s thoughts on Sonic the Comic: “For now, we really want to establish a new Sonic comic. Our focus is on something new and exciting.”

  • Aaron says that “things happened” on why the Archie era story arc suddenly stopped the way they did, but he says that sometimes these kinds of things happen. “There are reasons – trust us. I wish we could go into more detail. It’s tough for us too.”

  • Will IDW have its own Sonic Universe? “We’re taking nothing off the table, but we’re focusing on the brand-new series right now.”

  • They may create some original characters.

  • “How many of you would want to see a Sonic Forces comic?” Crowd cheers. “Good to know, we’ll pass that on.”

  • There was a question about backstory on the characters in Sonic Forces. Aaron’s answer: “wait and see”.

  • Open to audience reaction: how would original IDW characters factor into the stories? TONS of support for annoying sidekicks.

  • Creative process for the comics? “Ian has an incredible imagination – he could write these comics forever.”

  • Apparently Ian had his pitches ready for IDW immediately.

  • “We can use anything from the games.”

  • Ken Penders was brought up, asked if he was behind this. Only answer? “I don’t know who that is”.

  • There will be new artists. Wait and see.



Read the full story here



#2 Quickster

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 08:26 PM

Choose your response:

*THE HYPE IS REAL.
*All aboard the hype train!
* :D

I choose all of the above. April 4 can't come fast enough.

One question I still have is:

*Will we see Ian Flynn's custom Archie Sonic characters appear, such as Relic, Conquering Storm, etc.?
Hyped for the Sonic 2019 movie and the Mario 2022 movie!

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#3 LogiTeeka

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 10:12 PM

One question I still have is:

*Will we see Ian Flynn's custom Archie Sonic characters appear, such as Relic, Conquering Storm, etc.?

 

I don't see why not. They're fairly popular with the fanbase, SEGA owns all of them, and Ian has more creative freedom with this new series then he did back at Archie.

 

But since this is a reboot, he might have to adjust them slightly to fit the new mold.



#4 Wulfsbane

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 03:15 PM

If I'm being honest, I'm kinda 50/50 for Ian coming back.

 

Yeah he knows a lot about the franchise, is knowledgeable, and a fan favorite but I still find his stories to be lacking at times and good ideas just not executed right.

 

Maybe with IDW having a bit more leeway he can prove me wrong.


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#5 Clocktopus

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 09:55 PM

Exactly.  I don't think Ian is bad.  Just look at Spiderman 3 for evidence of what happens when a company puts too much control on an artist.  


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#6 ShenFNWoo

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 06:04 PM

Archie Sonic, regardless of how the stories were hit and miss on quality, is the only Sonic with a story I ever gave a crap about outside of Sonic OVA.  Outside of making a movie like the OVA, I doubt Sega could ever make a convincingly good sonic anything again, especially forcing mandates on the people working for them, and I would rather it be about Sonic and the freedom fighters, so if they aren't around, then this comic, no matter how good it can be, can kiss my ass.


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#7 LogiTeeka

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 05:24 PM

Archie Sonic, regardless of how the stories were hit and miss on quality, is the only Sonic with a story I ever gave a crap about outside of Sonic OVA.  Outside of making a movie like the OVA, I doubt Sega could ever make a convincingly good sonic anything again, especially forcing mandates on the people working for them, and I would rather it be about Sonic and the freedom fighters, so if they aren't around, then this comic, no matter how good it can be, can kiss my ass.

 

A bit quick to judge perhaps? I mean, they haven't denied the possibility of the Freedom Fighters showing up in the comic, and they've said that fans of the previous comic would be in for a big surprise.

 

But even then, I doubt the Freedom Fighters are a requirement to make everything Sonic-related decent. As long as the product is still good, that's all that matters. I mean, you said the OVA was really good and that didn't have anything related to SatAM in it as far as I'm aware (except maybe the Swatbots).



#8 ShenFNWoo

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 10:04 AM

Nah, not quick to judge.  Sega has made zero interesting Sonic anything since the OVA.  Ever since they tried going 3D the games and their stories for the most part sucked.  90% garbage.  I think for the past 20 years of suckage, I've got enough evidence to stand by to jump the gun by miles before any feelings of guilt for doing so start to show up.

 

Until they outright say the FF are in it, the comic is trash.  Also, they'd have to either revert them back to their original forms or redesign a few of them a second time to look more in line with their previous incarnations - Sally shouldn't look like a brat, how's that hard for these artists to understand?

 

 

Sonic's pretty much always been a blank slate, and they're doing their best to hollow him out further while adding more character - HOW DO YOU EVEN MANAGE THIS?!  He can never do any wrong, be weak, or have any character development.  Wow, I'm thrilled to hear about his adventures.  The stories he's involved in are so mundane that I can't help to roll my eyes ever single time.  There's just no depth to them.  And then the characters.  Oh the characters.  Barely any of them do anything to compliment Sonic as a character whatsoever.  Besides Tails, the rest of the characters post Adventure do nothing to add any more value to Sonic's personality....  Hell, they barely have any of their own.  Silver and Blaze were complimentary to...... Silver and Blaze.  I felt nothing even remotely resembling a rivalry between Sonic and him, and Sega obviously felt the same way because they had to force a defeat on Sonic just to make him seem any capable. 

 

Not even the villainous characetsr are all that entertaining or interesting.  Shadow was a good start, but then he was quickly busted down to nothing more than a sideshow or sidekick.  In the Sonic Boom game, they actually did a very good job with him despite the game and the story being trash.  He was a egotistical bad good guy who didn't need help and thought that the main good guys were worthless.  PERFECT!  The first time in a long time I've ever been happy with a decision made with the characters.

 

The females are all bland and boring, and they keep introducing more cutesy characters that don't make sense.  Cream is an affront to his holiness himself.  Stix could've been a good idea, but .....*sigh*...  Rouge is a sad in joke.  Blaze doesn't look the part of her character (looks more like a nappy headed brat).......  Elise is actually a breath of fresh air, but seems like such a ripoff or heavy reference to princess Orianna (hell, all of 2006 seems like that) that I can't take her seriously.  Sally fills in a decent female role perfectly, heck, even Bunnie does, but OOPS, they're not featured in ANY games or anything officially Sega.  It's like they don't WANT anything useful to be featured in their official Sonic products. 

 

The themes are also always conflicting, and it confuses me as well as any rationally thinking person as to what their target audience is. 

 

Are you targeting kids?  Do you think children who would fall for such cutesy characters would able to comprehend all the breakneck crazy nonsense going on in the screen? 

 

Teenagers?  Do you think any well adjusted teens would stomach the stupid cutesy cringey characters you keep putting into the games/shows?

 

What you wind up doing is appealing to these Disney channel type teens that don't ever want to grow up, and with that there's absolutely NO MYSTERY as to why the Sonic fanbase is so screwed up beyond reason. 

 

So what do you wind up getting eventually?  Either Sega making these stupid side stories that no one gives a rat's ass about and won't remember some 2 years later except to trash on it (see that stupid king arthur game crap they did and sonic colors) or Sega scrambling like crazy back to the tried and true formula of just going the 2D route, throwing in a classic sonic that doesn't really look like classic sonic.  And as much as I love the idea of Sonic Mania, there was this large gaping hollow I felt in it that made it not seem so legit.  Like playing Sonic CD but with no charm or mystery about it.  That mystical feel that Sonic 1, 2, 3, Knuckles and CD and hell, even Chaotix (by a little) had is no where to be found.

 

Satam, despite not doing Sonic the accuracy he deserves, and possibly removing some aesthetic, still had the capability to include those elements, along with keeping them accurate with the exception of robotnik if need be.  Since Satam is dead, Archie is the only thing closest to that, and the only thing resembling anything I care about.  I do not care for this sort of Adventure, 2006, Sonic X etc world tie in, because I absolutely hate the idea of humans are commonplace and active in the story - which is most likely going to be the case with Ian Flynn around, as if I remember correctly (sorry, I stopped reading), he tried to tie in the games as much as possible.

 

 

Sonic Mania falls short of delivering the previous Sonic generation's atmosphere, the gameplay is a different story.  While I would be accepting of Sonic Mania's universe being put into play, I highly doubt it would be utilized.


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#9 LogiTeeka

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 08:19 PM

Nah, not quick to judge.  Sega has made zero interesting Sonic anything since the OVA.  Ever since they tried going 3D the games and their stories for the most part sucked.  90% garbage.  I think for the past 20 years of suckage, I've got enough evidence to stand by to jump the gun by miles before any feelings of guilt for doing so start to show up.

 

But this isn't a product solely done by SEGA, it's a collaborative effort with IDW. Like Archie before them, the publishers have an idea for how they want to direct the series and SEGA gave them a list of guidelines to follow to keep the brand recognizable. So while SEGA is involved, it's still IDW's own tenure.

 

 

Until they outright say the FF are in it, the comic is trash.  Also, they'd have to either revert them back to their original forms or redesign a few of them a second time to look more in line with their previous incarnations - Sally shouldn't look like a brat, how's that hard for these artists to understand?

 

Like I said, the Freedom Fighters aren't a detriment to the series. As long as the comic proves to be good in and of itself, they aren't a requirement for guaranteed quality. Heck, I can think of a number of stories featuring them that were crap and they didn't do anything to help improve it.

 

Also, what exactly do you mean by "brat"? Sally was still the intelligent tactician we knew her to be since the beginning; she only had a shave and gotten a pair of clothes for her redesign.

 

Sonic's pretty much always been a blank slate, and they're doing their best to hollow him out further while adding more character - HOW DO YOU EVEN MANAGE THIS?!  He can never do any wrong, be weak, or have any character development.  Wow, I'm thrilled to hear about his adventures.  The stories he's involved in are so mundane that I can't help to roll my eyes ever single time.  There's just no depth to them.   And then the characters.  Oh the characters.  Barely any of them do anything to compliment Sonic as a character whatsoever.  Besides Tails, the rest of the characters post Adventure do nothing to add any more value to Sonic's personality....  Hell, they barely have any of their own.  Silver and Blaze were complimentary to...... Silver and Blaze.  I felt nothing even remotely resembling a rivalry between Sonic and him, and Sega obviously felt the same way because they had to force a defeat on Sonic just to make him seem any capable. 

 

 

A series can still be interesting even if the main character is a complete cardboard cutout. I mean, are Nintendo's Mario and Zelda series terrible because the main characters have little-to-no personality to them? Not really. Most people are interested in their games because the worlds they inhabit are more engaging. But even then, it's not like Sonic has zero personality whatsoever. He still shows signs of emotion and heart.

 

Blaze doesn't look the part of her character (looks more like a nappy headed brat).......

 

you-keep-using-that-word-gif-3.gif

 

Also, I'm pretty sure 'nappy' isn't an appropriate word to use in that context.

 

Are you targeting kids?  Do you think children who would fall for such cutesy characters would able to comprehend all the breakneck crazy nonsense going on in the screen?

 

What's this about kids not being able to comprehend the breakneck themes? I thought you were complaining about the series having no substance.

 

 

Teenagers?  Do you think any well adjusted teens would stomach the stupid cutesy cringey characters you keep putting into the games/shows?

 

That depends on the teenager in question. I know quite a number of older fans who like the cuter characters so it must appeal to some people.

 

 

So what do you wind up getting eventually?  Either Sega making these stupid side stories that no one gives a rat's ass about and won't remember some 2 years later except to trash on it (see that stupid king arthur game crap they did and sonic colors) or Sega scrambling like crazy back to the tried and true formula of just going the 2D route, throwing in a classic sonic that doesn't really look like classic sonic.

 

Actually, SatBK has quite a number of fans who liked the blend of Sonic with Arthurian legend. I still see people making fan art and using it as an example of a Sonic story told right. I don't see the same happening with "Colors".

 

How exactly does Classic Sonic not look like Classic Sonic? Is it because he's 3D? Or is it because he has his official Classic design and not his American one?

 

 

Since Satam is dead, Archie is the only thing closest to that, and the only thing resembling anything I care about.  I do not care for this sort of Adventure, 2006, Sonic X etc world tie in, because I absolutely hate the idea of humans are commonplace and active in the story - which is most likely going to be the case with Ian Flynn around, as if I remember correctly (sorry, I stopped reading), he tried to tie in the games as much as possible.

 

Ian had to connect the series with the games because it was what SEGA wanted him to do. SatAM was meant to promote the games when it was released and the comic was no different. When the franchise changed, so did the comics.

 

Also, complaining about the presence of humans in the world of Sonic is kinda a moot point when you consider Robotnik/Eggman is human as well. I mean, in a world populated by anthropomorphic animals, he had to come from somewhere. And last time I checked, humans were animals as well.



#10 ShenFNWoo

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 09:36 PM

 

But this isn't a product solely done by SEGA, it's a collaborative effort with IDW. Like Archie before them, the publishers have an idea for how they want to direct the series and SEGA gave them a list of guidelines to follow to keep the brand recognizable. So while SEGA is involved, it's still IDW's own tenure.

 

Good point I guess.  But still, with the stranglehold on it, I highly doubt I'm going to find anything of interest in there.

 

 

Like I said, the Freedom Fighters aren't a detriment to the series. As long as the comic proves to be good in and of itself, they aren't a requirement for guaranteed quality. Heck, I can think of a number of stories featuring them that were crap and they didn't do anything to help improve it.

 

They're only the best characters involved in Sonic anything since the Chaotix inclusion (I still hate that damned bee).  Next to nothing Sega created or derived afterwards have been at all interesting, and it's not because I have a distaste for them.

 

Also, what exactly do you mean by "brat"? Sally was still the intelligent tactician we knew her to be since the beginning; she only had a shave and gotten a pair of clothes for her redesign.

 

I remember complaining solely about her looks, not how she acts.  You can't tell me that you looked at the way she was drawn in many of the panels and couldn't find a huge, obnoxious difference between the royal air she had before to the washed out and completely goofy at times visage that the artists depict her having, can you?

 

A series can still be interesting even if the main character is a complete cardboard cutout. I mean, are Nintendo's Mario and Zelda series terrible because the main characters have little-to-no personality to them? Not really. Most people are interested in their games because the worlds they inhabit are more engaging. But even then, it's not like Sonic has zero personality whatsoever. He still shows signs of emotion and heart.

 

But super mario DOES have personality.  It's not very defined or deep, but it's there, and gives him enough charm.  Besides, none of the plots in Mario games are designed to be taken with as much seriousness that Sonic games do. 

 

And yes, Sonic does show emotions and heart.....  that of a Marty Sue.  Perfect :\

 

Also, I'm pretty sure 'nappy' isn't an appropriate word to use in that context.

 

Well, I don't like using the same word in the same post to describe two different things, but I was editing when that happened.  But regardless, looks and personality do go hand in hand.  Her hair looks like crap dude, nappy is perfect.  She looks like the kids I used to see at corner stores that were sent there by their parents.

 

 

What's this about kids not being able to comprehend the breakneck themes? I thought you were complaining about the series having no substance.

 

Hand in hand dude....  Remember that.  Some aesthetics don't blend.

 

 

That depends on the teenager in question. I know quite a number of older fans who like the cuter characters so it must appeal to some people.

 

 >_> ..........

 

 

 

How exactly does Classic Sonic not look like Classic Sonic? Is it because he's 3D? Or is it because he has his official Classic design and not his American one?

 

No, he just looks Flanderized.  Too....  I dunno, tubby.  Sonic wasn't a thin stick but he wasn't a pudgy munchkin either.

 

 

Ian had to connect the series with the games because it was what SEGA wanted him to do

 

Ah, say no more.

 

 

Also, complaining about the presence of humans in the world of Sonic is kinda a moot point when you consider Robotnik/Eggman is human as well.

 

No guy.  I mean I don't like the idea of heavy human presence in Sonic's universe.  Sorry for the confusion. 

 

 

 

Show me some good stuff in the comic that's worth reading.  I'll take a look.  I promise nothing, but I'll read it to completion.  Hopefully there's no in universe stuff that I need to know beforehand that'll make a significant impact on my understanding it.


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#11 LogiTeeka

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 06:01 AM

They're only the best characters involved in Sonic anything since the Chaotix inclusion (I still hate that damned bee).  Next to nothing Sega created or derived afterwards have been at all interesting, and it's not because I have a distaste for them.

 

How exactly are the Chaotix a detriment to Sonic as a character? And how exactly are they interesting? From what I can tell, they were mostly just tagalong characters to Knuckles that later became detectives. There's not a whole lot to them.

 

Compare that with Shadow, Blaze or even Chip. Shadow had a complicated backstory of being an organic immortal bioweapon that happens to resemble Sonic, Blaze was an estranged banished princess who had a hard time socializing with others till Sonic helped her out, and Chip was an eldritch entity who spent most of his existence battling his darker counterpart till Sonic showed him the world he protected and he found a new reason to continue fighting.

 

 

I remember complaining solely about her looks, not how she acts.  You can't tell me that you looked at the way she was drawn in many of the panels and couldn't find a huge, obnoxious difference between the royal air she had before to the washed out and completely goofy at times visage that the artists depict her having, can you?

 

I thought her original design looked more scruffy and less regal. But isn't that the general idea? She's meant to be a tomboy who just so happens to carry the title of royalty, but she doesn't let that define her.

 

Her reboot design is less scruffy-looking but it doesn't scream royal either. If anything, it's just an updated version of her normal design given the Sonic aesthetic. And honestly, I like the goofy visage she sometimes has; it gives her more expression to illustrate her personality.

 

 

But super mario DOES have personality.  It's not very defined or deep, but it's there, and gives him enough charm.  Besides, none of the plots in Mario games are designed to be taken with as much seriousness that Sonic games do. 

 

And yes, Sonic does show emotions and heart.....  that of a Marty Sue.  Perfect :\

 

Luigi has more personality than Mario. Mario is usually pretty straightfaced with hardly anything else to define what his personality is, which makes him easier for players to project themselves onto. Luigi, on the other hand, is quite clearly an awkward and cowardly character who just so happens to be brave as well.

 

Sonic still has a good range of emotions - at least, in the comics. He has a temper and is prone to fits of rage at times, not to mention cocky as heck. And that oftentimes gets him into trouble.

 

 

Well, I don't like using the same word in the same post to describe two different things, but I was editing when that happened.  But regardless, looks and personality do go hand in hand.  Her hair looks like crap dude, nappy is perfect.  She looks like the kids I used to see at corner stores that were sent there by their parents.

 

Her design is meant to invoke Middle Eastern fashion, which ties into her fiery powers.

 

Also, Sonic has "crap" hair as well. But that's kinda a moot point as well, considering they don't really have actual hair. They're furry.

 

 

No, he just looks Flanderized.  Too....  I dunno, tubby.  Sonic wasn't a thin stick but he wasn't a pudgy munchkin either.

 

Classic Sonic has always been tubby: https://vignette.wik...=20151214133329

 

After all, he's a hedgehog,

 

 

 

Ian had to connect the series with the games because it was what SEGA wanted him to do

 

Ah, say no more.

 

Why? Is it bad to have a spinoff product tie into the games its meant to tie back into?

 

SatAM had game elements as well. There's even a whole episode involving a pinball fortress.

 

 

Show me some good stuff in the comic that's worth reading.  I'll take a look.  I promise nothing, but I'll read it to completion.  Hopefully there's no in universe stuff that I need to know beforehand that'll make a significant impact on my understanding it.

 

You should check out the stuff from Ian's run on the comics. If you want to see the game elements given a fairer treatment than in the games, he's done a much better job at it than SEGA and Sonic Team themselves.

 

In terms of recommendations, there's the "Sonic Universe" spinoff series. These stories are mostly self-contained, but they have some really interesting themes to explore regarding the characters - ranging from fun and silly romps to dark and dramatic stories to even discussions of philosophy. The reboot even had those moments.

 

But if you want something that's more in line with SatAM, then I'm afraid there isn't a whole lot since the early comics kinda missed out on that mark back in the 90's. Still, the best writer I would recommend is probably Angelo DeCesare. Most of his work probably comes the closest to matching SatAM's tone and spirit.



#12 RedAuthar

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 10:23 PM

 

 

 

 

Why? Is it bad to have a spinoff product tie into the games its meant to tie back into?

 

SatAM had game elements as well. There's even a whole episode involving a pinball fortress.

And Honestly it's a pretty dumb trap, and has some dumb plot elements. (You Froze Robotnik.  You won right there.  He's frozen.  Sonic's safe.  Mobius is Safe.  Why would you NOT jump on that?!)

 

SatAM isn't perfect.  Why do the comic plots have to be?

 

 

 

They're only the best characters involved in Sonic anything since the Chaotix inclusion (I still hate that damned bee).  Next to nothing Sega created or derived afterwards have been at all interesting, and it's not because I have a distaste for them.

 

How exactly are the Chaotix a detriment to Sonic as a character? And how exactly are they interesting? From what I can tell, they were mostly just tagalong characters to Knuckles that later became detectives. There's not a whole lot to them.

 

Compare that with Shadow, Blaze or even Chip. Shadow had a complicated backstory of being an organic immortal bioweapon that happens to resemble Sonic, Blaze was an estranged banished princess who had a hard time socializing with others till Sonic helped her out, and Chip was an eldritch entity who spent most of his existence battling his darker counterpart till Sonic showed him the world he protected and he found a new reason to continue fighting.

 

Also remember SatAM Bunnie's gimmick is Cyborg-Southern-Belle.  She has no backstory that is ever delved into, and her personality traits consist of the stereotype Southern-Belle.  

 

Also Chip sucks.  Nobody likes Chip.  I will take Charmy over Chip any day.  That said, Comic Chip was more interesting/a better version.  

 

 

 

I remember complaining solely about her looks, not how she acts.  You can't tell me that you looked at the way she was drawn in many of the panels and couldn't find a huge, obnoxious difference between the royal air she had before to the washed out and completely goofy at times visage that the artists depict her having, can you?

 

I thought her original design looked more scruffy and less regal. But isn't that the general idea? She's meant to be a tomboy who just so happens to carry the title of royalty, but she doesn't let that define her.

 

Her reboot design is less scruffy-looking but it doesn't scream royal either. If anything, it's just an updated version of her normal design given the Sonic aesthetic. And honestly, I like the goofy visage she sometimes has; it gives her more expression to illustrate her personality.

 

 

 

 

I've always preferred Wolverine's classic Costume: http://serpentorslai...bigcostume3.jpg

That said it doesn't mean the "Modern" look is bad: https://img1.goodfon...komiks-1658.jpg

And I've always thought the Brown/Gold one was not as good as the others: https://uncannyxmen....bigcostume5.jpg

 

Doesn't mean any are Bad.  It's a personal taste.  

 

The Freedom Fighters redesigns aren't actually Bad.  You don't have to like them.  But they're not bad designs.  

 

Actually I kinda prefer the Freedom Fighters to look more like the SEGA cast if everyone else is going to look like the SEGA cast.  In SatAM Sonic felt out of place as he only barely resembles a Hedgehog and he's bright blue.  In the comics, as more characters looked SEGA style (Plus a lot more SEGA Sonic characters were popping up) the Freedom Fighters began to feel out of place.  By redesigning them to look more like they belong wasn't a bad move.  



#13 ShenFNWoo

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 09:18 PM

 

How exactly are the Chaotix a detriment to Sonic as a character? And how exactly are they interesting? From what I can tell, they were mostly just tagalong characters to Knuckles that later became detectives. There's not a whole lot to them.

 

Not a detriment.  I liked them (cept charmy, screw him).  I just thought they looked cool enough as characters to be in a Sonic thing. 

 

I honestly forgot some of those other games existed.  Sonic Unleashed..... D:  yet again, another character placed into sonic that I can't take seriously just looking at them.

 

 

 

I thought her original design looked more scruffy and less regal. But isn't that the general idea? She's meant to be a tomboy who just so happens to carry the title of royalty, but she doesn't let that define her.

 

Her reboot design is less scruffy-looking but it doesn't scream royal either. If anything, it's just an updated version of her normal design given the Sonic aesthetic. And honestly, I like the goofy visage she sometimes has; it gives her more expression to illustrate her personality.

 

What series are you looking at/watching/reading?  Male boys didn't get a crush on her growing up with the show over nothing you know.  She had a this wicked feminine charm about her that was completely destroyed in the translation to the reboot.  I've seen people adjust the reboot's look to better resemble her old look, but the costume still jars. 

 

The whole dressing her in sporty attire completely killed her look.  To match the previous aesthetic, they should've at least made her more outdoorsy looking, like a nature guide or something.  And quit with the white gloves too. What is this, Disney?

 

 

Luigi has more personality than Mario. Mario is usually pretty straightfaced with hardly anything else to define what his personality is, which makes him easier for players to project themselves onto. Luigi, on the other hand, is quite clearly an awkward and cowardly character who just so happens to be brave as well.

 

Sonic still has a good range of emotions - at least, in the comics. He has a temper and is prone to fits of rage at times, not to mention cocky as heck. And that oftentimes gets him into trouble.

 

This still doesn't address that fact that Sonic products stories for at least some part must be taken with a grain of seriousness, and how the design choices often clash.  Exactly what about this should be for tiny kids or taken as light hearted when you have robots shooting BULLETS at a living woodland creature? 

 

 

Her design is meant to invoke Middle Eastern fashion, which ties into her fiery powers.

 

Also, Sonic has "crap" hair as well. But that's kinda a moot point as well, considering they don't really have actual hair. They're furry.

 

Show me where middle eastern culture showcases bratty, cheaply done hairstyles and I'll concede. 

 

Sonic doesn't wear his quills/fur in a manner befitting a hairstyle.  That argument eliminates itself on the spot.

 

 

Classic Sonic has always been tubby: https://vignette.wik...=20151214133329

 

After all, he's a hedgehog,

 

Did you not just dismiss the legitimacy of the american artwork of sonic and then bring it up as an example of legitimacy?

 

I always go by the Sonic 2 sprite or the Sonic CD cartoon Sonic as the definitive look for classic sonic.

 

Edit:  Now that I take a 2nd look, the 3D model does seem a bit accurate, though still seems like he had quite a few double cheeseburgers more.  I just remember classic's legs being a bit longer, and quills a tad frillier.  Regardless, something else still seems off about the 3D generations classic sonic.  Could possibly be the way he looks in the lighting at times.  He appears more obviously like a 1950's cartoon character at times when it was never that blatantly apparent before, which is what my problem is.

 

 

Why? Is it bad to have a spinoff product tie into the games its meant to tie back into?

 

SatAM had game elements as well. There's even a whole episode involving a pinball fortress.

 

Nope, was just saying that it explains why he did what he did.  Nothing more than that this time.

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

And Honestly it's a pretty dumb trap, and has some dumb plot elements. (You Froze Robotnik.  You won right there.  He's frozen.  Sonic's safe.  Mobius is Safe.  Why would you NOT jump on that?!)

 

SatAM isn't perfect.  Why do the comic plots have to be?

 

No one's giving Satam a free pass on stupidity.  I complain just as much watching stupid crap like that happen as well.  Also, no one's saying that the plots have to be perfect, just entertaining.  *Shrug*

 

 

Also remember SatAM Bunnie's gimmick is Cyborg-Southern-Belle.  She has no backstory that is ever delved into, and her personality traits consist of the stereotype Southern-Belle.

 

And yet, at first glance she still appears to be a better character than anything Sega has come up with so far.  She's one of the few characters that looks exceptable in their reboot forms. 

 

 

Also Chip sucks.  Nobody likes Chip.  I will take Charmy over Chip any day.  That said, Comic Chip was more interesting/a better version.

 

^This.

 

 

I've always preferred Wolverine's classic Costume: http://serpentorslai...bigcostume3.jpg

That said it doesn't mean the "Modern" look is bad: https://img1.goodfon...komiks-1658.jpg

And I've always thought the Brown/Gold one was not as good as the others: https://uncannyxmen....bigcostume5.jpg

 

Doesn't mean any are Bad.  It's a personal taste.

 

It's the same exact costume drawn differently.  There's not even the beginnings of a redesign on him.  How's this relevant?

 

And ah, postmodernism.  Nothing's ever bad, nothing's ever good.  Everything is taste.  Why discuss anything? :biggrin:

 

 

The Freedom Fighters redesigns aren't actually Bad.  You don't have to like them.  But they're not bad designs.

 

The Post modernism stance doesn't work here because I've already set a standard for which it's judged.  They don't all embody the looks and aesthetic of their previous incarnations. 

 

Some changes were completely unnecessary.  Just because one character has a particular knack doesn't mean that another has to lose a similar one.  So what the role is filled?  Here's another guy that does the same thing, possibly better... could've taught him....  could've learned from him.  Could've actually mastered it rather than just tinkering around randomly.  No, screw that, you're a brute now.  Yay :)

 

Then there's this whole nude male, clothed female BS that needs to go the wayside.  Bring up that tired counterargument all you want, it does NOT excuse it.  It's either acceptable for all, or acceptable for none.  Just another way Sega is screwing anything that could be done over.

 

Let us not forget, that men can never have feet that are sexually objectified, so all females get the blob foot treatment. 

 

If they were completely different characters altogether, everything regarding the redesigns would be fine.  That's not the case. 

 

 

Actually I kinda prefer the Freedom Fighters to look more like the SEGA cast if everyone else is going to look like the SEGA cast.  In SatAM Sonic felt out of place as he only barely resembles a Hedgehog and he's bright blue.  In the comics, as more characters looked SEGA style (Plus a lot more SEGA Sonic characters were popping up) the Freedom Fighters began to feel out of place.  By redesigning them to look more like they belong wasn't a bad move.

 

I don't know about Sonic seeming out of place in Satam, but yes the FF did appear out of place later in the comics......  due to everyone being portrayed in a style they weren't meant to be.  Hence the reason why good judgement and objectivity is necessary when making designs. 

 

Redesigning them was not a bad move, they had no choice, Sega wants to screw things over.  THE WAY they were redesigned was absolute trash. 


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#14 LogiTeeka

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 04:49 PM

 

How exactly are the Chaotix a detriment to Sonic as a character? And how exactly are they interesting? From what I can tell, they were mostly just tagalong characters to Knuckles that later became detectives. There's not a whole lot to them.

 

Not a detriment.  I liked them (cept charmy, screw him).  I just thought they looked cool enough as characters to be in a Sonic thing. 

 

I honestly forgot some of those other games existed.  Sonic Unleashed..... D:  yet again, another character placed into sonic that I can't take seriously just looking at them.

 

I find that hard to accept considering some of the more sillier designs that SatAM had as well.

 

https://vignette.wik...=20131027211500

https://vignette2.wi...=20160531224936

https://vignette3.wi...=20131026113936

 

I mean, if you paired them with Chip, they wouldn't look that out of place.

 

And honestly, I like silly designs. They're much more memorable and interesting to look at.

 

 

 

I thought her original design looked more scruffy and less regal. But isn't that the general idea? She's meant to be a tomboy who just so happens to carry the title of royalty, but she doesn't let that define her.

 

Her reboot design is less scruffy-looking but it doesn't scream royal either. If anything, it's just an updated version of her normal design given the Sonic aesthetic. And honestly, I like the goofy visage she sometimes has; it gives her more expression to illustrate her personality.

 

What series are you looking at/watching/reading?  Male boys didn't get a crush on her growing up with the show over nothing you know.  She had a this wicked feminine charm about her that was completely destroyed in the translation to the reboot.  I've seen people adjust the reboot's look to better resemble her old look, but the costume still jars. 

 

The whole dressing her in sporty attire completely killed her look.  To match the previous aesthetic, they should've at least made her more outdoorsy looking, like a nature guide or something.  And quit with the white gloves too. What is this, Disney?

 

I don't need a girl to be naked in order to develop a crush on her, it's the personality I find the most attractive. And Sally' character, while stubborn, is engaging enough on its own.

 

https://orig05.devia...g06-d6ull7k.png

 

Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with her wearing sports clothes. Sure, it may not be completely necessary, but I feel it complements her character in a way that her older design didn't quite envoke. It gives the impression that she's prepared for action and ready to take one whatever threat is coming her way. And in a way, I find that sexier.

 

And the gloves are an aesthetic look that harkens back to old cartoon characters; something that the Sonic series was trying to invoke since its conception, so it makes perfect sense for other characters to fit the mold.

 

 

 

 

Luigi has more personality than Mario. Mario is usually pretty straightfaced with hardly anything else to define what his personality is, which makes him easier for players to project themselves onto. Luigi, on the other hand, is quite clearly an awkward and cowardly character who just so happens to be brave as well.

 

Sonic still has a good range of emotions - at least, in the comics. He has a temper and is prone to fits of rage at times, not to mention cocky as heck. And that oftentimes gets him into trouble.

 

This still doesn't address that fact that Sonic products stories for at least some part must be taken with a grain of seriousness, and how the design choices often clash.  Exactly what about this should be for tiny kids or taken as light hearted when you have robots shooting BULLETS at a living woodland creature?

 

That happens all the time with various properties. I mean, take Batman for instance. A millionaire who dresses up like a bat to scare bad guys? That's a pretty silly idea when you think about it, but it can be interpreted in a great many numbers of ways.

 

And everyone (even young kids) can still tell the difference between them. I mean, is a kid gonna mistake the Adam West Batman for the Micheal Keaton version? If Batman can have different versions of himself, ranging from silly to serious, why can't Sonic as well?

 

And really, there are some kids who like the more serious stuff. I mean, my brothers and I grew up watching old movie series that had gunfights and violent fisticuffs, and we enjoyed them like candy. So it depends on the kid.

 

 

 

 

Her design is meant to invoke Middle Eastern fashion, which ties into her fiery powers.

 

Also, Sonic has "crap" hair as well. But that's kinda a moot point as well, considering they don't really have actual hair. They're furry.

 

Show me where middle eastern culture showcases bratty, cheaply done hairstyles and I'll concede.

 

http://stylesatlife....airstyles-2.jpg

 

Granted, Blaze's hair is more stylized and cartoonish, but the influence is still there.

 

 

Sonic doesn't wear his quills/fur in a manner befitting a hairstyle.  That argument eliminates itself on the spot.

 

Oh, really?

 

https://i.pinimg.com...8ed620563f5.jpg

 

 

 

 

Also remember SatAM Bunnie's gimmick is Cyborg-Southern-Belle.  She has no backstory that is ever delved into, and her personality traits consist of the stereotype Southern-Belle.

 

And yet, at first glance she still appears to be a better character than anything Sega has come up with so far.  She's one of the few characters that looks exceptable in their reboot forms.

 

Wait. I don't get it. You complain about Blaze for looking like a black teenager stereotype, but you don't mind Bunnie acting like a typical southern damsel?

 

You're sending me some mixed messages here.

 

 

The Post modernism stance doesn't work here because I've already set a standard for which it's judged.  They don't all embody the looks and aesthetic of their previous incarnations.

 

Some changes were completely unnecessary.  Just because one character has a particular knack doesn't mean that another has to lose a similar one.  So what the role is filled?  Here's another guy that does the same thing, possibly better... could've taught him....  could've learned from him.  Could've actually mastered it rather than just tinkering around randomly.  No, screw that, you're a brute now.  Yay  :)

 

Well, Rotor still needed an identity to differentiate himself from the likes of Tails and Uncle Chuck. And since people complained that he wasn't all that active beforehand, why not make him more physically fit in order for him to contribute to the team? He's still a geeky mechanic, but he's more involved with the team now.

 

Also, he did teach Tails how to be a mechanic. Just thought I'd point that out.

 

 

Then there's this whole nude male, clothed female BS that needs to go the wayside.  Bring up that tired counterargument all you want, it does NOT excuse it.  It's either acceptable for all, or acceptable for none.  Just another way Sega is screwing anything that could be done over.

 

Well, that cannot be helped. Sonic is their intellectual property and they decide what they want with it.

 

Plus, this isn't the only case of it. Lots of other anthropomorphic animals have this same predicament - Donald Duck, Donkey Kong, Crash Bandicoot, etc.

 

 

Let us not forget, that men can never have feet that are sexually objectified, so all females get the blob foot treatment. 

 

Wait... what?!

 

No, that's not the case at all. Male characters have blob feet as well.

 

http://images2.wikia...69/Tails_27.png

 

That's just another trait for all characters.

 

 

If they were completely different characters altogether, everything regarding the redesigns would be fine.  That's not the case. 

 

What do you mean by "different characters altogether"?

 

 

 

Actually I kinda prefer the Freedom Fighters to look more like the SEGA cast if everyone else is going to look like the SEGA cast.  In SatAM Sonic felt out of place as he only barely resembles a Hedgehog and he's bright blue.  In the comics, as more characters looked SEGA style (Plus a lot more SEGA Sonic characters were popping up) the Freedom Fighters began to feel out of place.  By redesigning them to look more like they belong wasn't a bad move.

 

I don't know about Sonic seeming out of place in Satam, but yes the FF did appear out of place later in the comics......  due to everyone being portrayed in a style they weren't meant to be.  Hence the reason why good judgement and objectivity is necessary when making designs. 

 

Redesigning them was not a bad move, they had no choice, Sega wants to screw things over.  THE WAY they were redesigned was absolute trash. 

 

Good judgment and objectivity are pretty subjective opinions.

 

In my opinion, I like the newer designs. They're simpler and easier on the eyes, which makes them easier to draw (which was also the intention behind Sonic and Eggman's designs).

 

Their designs in the old continuity were too complicated and intricate compared to how Sonic was. Sally had long flowing strands of hair, Bunnie had too many cowboy accessories, Antoine's coat had too many elaborate details, and Rotor had tufts of hair, glasses, and a bomber jacket. There was just way too much stuff going on.



#15 ShenFNWoo

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 07:31 PM

 

I find that hard to accept considering some of the more sillier designs that SatAM had as well.

 

https://vignette.wik...=20131027211500

https://vignette2.wi...=20160531224936

https://vignette3.wi...=20131026113936

 

I mean, if you paired them with Chip, they wouldn't look that out of place.

 

And honestly, I like silly designs. They're much more memorable and interesting to look at.

 

You seem to operate on a whole lot of false equivalence....  You think the designs are silly therefore they are conceptually silly and don't work in the show.  I think the designs of Chip and characters like Cream are silly because they don't mesh well with the themes at play in the games they're involved in, aka, they're artistic polar opposites clashing and ruining the tone they're attempting to set - sorry, choose one.  Choose both and you could potentially get Watership Down.

 

The overall tone of Satam still allowed for Snively, the dragon's, and Antoine's designs to fit into their universe.  Hell, Ant's design is supposed to also be a reminder that they all once came from a 'kingdom'.  I'm no fan of Ant's design but there's very little wrong with it.  Not liking him doesn't mean he doesn't fit.  He doesn't need to be liked to fit.

 

And while we're at it, you're defending the games, but seem to be painfully unaware or completely ignorant to the fact that Sonic and his friends stood out like a sore thumb in 2006, and pretty much every other 3D incarnation where he was paired up with normal looking humans.  Like seriously, he looks like a walking plushie.

 

 

I don't need a girl to be naked in order to develop a crush on her, it's the personality I find the most attractive. And Sally' character, while stubborn, is engaging enough on its own.

 

That's a lot of assumption you're heaping onto me.  One, you assume that I like her because she's naked.  Two you assume that she has to be naked for me to like her.  Three, you assume she's naked because she's bottomless and has nothing covering her chest.  Naked is a term reserved for humans, since we have no sufficient covering.  Animals have fur, or there need be some effort taken to see their genitalia, which is why for the most part you don't see us paying it much attention in day to day life.  Four, you assume I dislike the idea of her having clothes at all, which is weird, because the inclusion of the vest in Season 2 actually blew my mind as a kid - her charm only increased adding more, and for the life of me I don't know why.

 

You should be glad you're talking to me, because anyone else would think that's downright FN insulting and start tagging you from here on out.  But I'm easy going and it takes a bit to push me, and as I can see, you enjoy a good debate - me too - so I'll just address the points you're making. 

 

 

https://orig05.devia...g06-d6ull7k.png

 

Character traits from merely glancing at her:

- Cheery/cheerful (facial details)

- Cute (facial features)

- Sporty (the clothes)

- Looks like she belongs on a tennis court (again, the clothes)

- energetic (pose has energy)

- upbeat (pose exerts positive attitude)

- Dorky/nerdy (due to the hairstyle)

- Juvenile (face again)

- Spunky (standard dictionary definition: 

spunk·y
ˈspəNGkē/
adjective
informal
adjective: spunky; comparative adjective: spunkier; superlative adjective: spunkiest
  1. courageous and determined.
    "a spunky performance"
     
    Not the urban dictionary defintion, which is what I'd normally use this term for:  https://www.urbandic...php?term=spunky )

 

Now let's compare with the original Sally

 

https://vignette.wik...=20140726113313

 

Or even better yet,

 

http://i0.kym-cdn.co...248/487/b04.png

 

Since basically this is nothing more than someone expanding on the features that are already there and making them more noticeable:

 

- Mature (hair and face)

- Obvious leader

- Sassy (hair again)

- Serious/No nonsense (overall tone)

- Go getter (overall tone)

- Reserved (overall tone)

- Feminine (overall tone)

- Pretty (not cute in the same fashion)

- Fashionable (hair)

- Sideline character (don't expect her to knock down doors to kick your ass)

 

I expected for the redesign to retain these features, but they did away with them and/or even changed them to the opposite.  Now the only thing I have telling me that she might still be of these qualities is how she acts, with a fashion clash that says different about her.  Am I to believe I'm just too old fashioned?  Nowadays people tend to look at characters like say, Bumblebee in Michael Bay's Transformers movies, who's both a retard and a badass and they don't bat an eye.  Meanwhile characters who exude actual toughness and play the part get killed off, and yet again, no eye batting detected.

 

Again, I did say that she would've looked a hell of a lot better in something say, a nature guide outfit

 

kate-gosselin-zookeeper-australia.jpg

 

Tried looking on google and gave up after about 3 minutes.  The girl on the far right.  Imagine her top was white, and either was midriff or was tucked into the shorts.  Also imagine the shorts were denim or something, I dunno, they just look too thin. 

 

The redesign isn't completely horrible.  It could be spruced up to be a hell of a lot better.  You could get rid of the gloves altogether, and make the pants extend all the way down to her ankles and the boots up to her knees, and you'd have a decent fitting outfit for her, though still sporty.  You'd still have to get rid of that juvenile ass body of hers and revert it back to the original to get any kind of decent resemblance to the source material. 

 

 

It gives the impression that she's prepared for action and ready to take one whatever threat is coming her way. And in a way, I find that sexier.

 

I'll be sure to call on a tennis player to come save my life if I ever get kidnapped by an evil madman, I assure you.

 

 

 

That happens all the time with various properties. I mean, take Batman for instance. A millionaire who dresses up like a bat to scare bad guys? That's a pretty silly idea when you think about it, but it can be interpreted in a great many numbers of ways.

 

That's more comic book campy nonsense that had a culture all it's own. 

 

And really, there are some kids who like the more serious stuff. I mean, my brothers and I grew up watching old movie series that had gunfights and violent fisticuffs, and we enjoyed them like candy. So it depends on the kid.

 

 

It's not about whether you can be accepting of the material being presented to you, that's what I'm trying to convey here.  It's about meeting artistic standards.  You can like music that's composed by complete amateurs, but people who actually create music having learned the structure and the foundations may listen to it and notice all of the mistakes and bad composition decisions.  It's why people who listen to well written music NOT SIMPLY FOR LISTENING PLEASURE BUT ARTISTIC COMPOSITION tend to hate easily thrown together crap like the majority of rap music....or inner city singers like Rihanna's "Work work work" song - seriously, there's like how many hundreds of videos of people who actually know a thing or two about making music making fun of that damned song where as the majority of 'average' people tend to like it.

 

 

Granted, Blaze's hair is more stylized and cartoonish, but the influence is still there.

 

Not really.  She'd need to have one ponytail and bangs to compliment it, if going by your example picture is what I'm supposed to be doing here.

 

 

Wait. I don't get it. You complain about Blaze for looking like a black teenager stereotype, but you don't mind Bunnie acting like a typical southern damsel?

 

You're sending me some mixed messages here.

 

No.  I don't like the "black teenager stereotype" because it's aesthetically displeasing - but let it be known that YOU coined the term, not me :P .  You wouldn't want to put say, some random dirt poor village child from some 3rd world country into a story where they intermingle with people of higher standing - it just looks bad and generates a sort of depressing feeling towards them (this is the reason why I absolutely DETEST animes like one piece).  In this case, Blaze just looks FN cheap, like she literally woke up, put on her best clothes, looked at her hair, said "F it", tossed in some barrettes and called it a day.  

 

There's no mixed message, it's all in your head.  A stereotype is fine by me if it looks good enough to be put on screen.  Maybe you read RedAuthor's comment and confused it with mine.

 

 

Wait... what?!

 

No, that's not the case at all. Male characters have blob feet as well.

 

http://images2.wikia...69/Tails_27.png

 

That's just another trait for all characters.

 

I would hope so.  But I've seen cases where male characters had toes.  I did see Chip depicted in the comic after all.  Does he not count?  I don't care if he had it in the games, again, everyone, or no one.

 

 

What do you mean by "different characters altogether"?

 

Exactly what I said.  If they were different characters, these designs would be fine.  That they are not makes those designs garbage as they aren't a good representation of the source material.

 

Good judgment and objectivity are pretty subjective opinions.

 

 

That's where you're wrong.  I've said it above, but I'll say it again.  There are standards and structures to be followed when making design choices in something artistic.  Give a character with a color theme of pink, red and white, and expect anyone looking at them to throw taking them seriously out the door, because at that point the character looks like an FN candy cane.  Heck, orange and black are halloween colors, but need a specific distribution to make it apparent.  Mostly orange, depending on it's brightness and hue, with scarce black give's you a sort of charlie brown, while if you were to reverse it....  Well, the intended product occurs.

 

In my opinion, I like the newer designs. They're simpler and easier on the eyes, which makes them easier to draw (which was also the intention behind Sonic and Eggman's designs).
Their designs in the old continuity were too complicated and intricate compared to how Sonic was. Sally had long flowing strands of hair, Bunnie had too many cowboy accessories, Antoine's coat had too many elaborate details, and Rotor had tufts of hair, glasses, and a bomber jacket. There was just way too much stuff going on.

 

This argument that they're easier to draw now is actually a horrible thing.  This generation seems to want everything to be easier.  Forget putting work into your passions and hobbies, character designs are nothing more than a vector trace away.  I swear, by the year 2050, people will be drawing stick figures and thinking them masterpieces, and demanding you take them seriously.

 

Ant's costume really isn't that hard to draw dude.  It's basic and simple.  Save complaints for drawing hands and feet at specific angles, then get back to me.

 

And it seems you have complaints of how they were drawn in the comic by different artists.  Not sure how official they were, as most people simply draw Rotor and Bunnie in their original designs anyway *shrug* 


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#16 LogiTeeka

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 10:57 PM

 

 

I find that hard to accept considering some of the more sillier designs that SatAM had as well.

 

https://vignette.wik...=20131027211500

https://vignette2.wi...=20160531224936

https://vignette3.wi...=20131026113936

 

I mean, if you paired them with Chip, they wouldn't look that out of place.

 

And honestly, I like silly designs. They're much more memorable and interesting to look at.

 

You seem to operate on a whole lot of false equivalence....  You think the designs are silly therefore they are conceptually silly and don't work in the show.  I think the designs of Chip and characters like Cream are silly because they don't mesh well with the themes at play in the games they're involved in, aka, they're artistic polar opposites clashing and ruining the tone they're attempting to set - sorry, choose one.  Choose both and you could potentially get Watership Down.

 

The overall tone of Satam still allowed for Snively, the dragon's, and Antoine's designs to fit into their universe.  Hell, Ant's design is supposed to also be a reminder that they all once came from a 'kingdom'.  I'm no fan of Ant's design but there's very little wrong with it.  Not liking him doesn't mean he doesn't fit.  He doesn't need to be liked to fit.

 

And while we're at it, you're defending the games, but seem to be painfully unaware or completely ignorant to the fact that Sonic and his friends stood out like a sore thumb in 2006, and pretty much every other 3D incarnation where he was paired up with normal looking humans.  Like seriously, he looks like a walking plushie.

 

But that's the thing, they don't mesh. You look at the backgrounds of SatAM, the gritty cyberpunk designs of the Swatbots, and the semi-realistic looking characters (by that, I mean anthropomorphic animals that actually resemble their real-life counterparts - colors and everything) and you get the impression that it's a series that takes itself seriously.

 

Then suddenly, you got a Mickey Mouse-looking creature with conjoined eyes, superpowers, and questionable fur/hair running around at super speeds with a young fox that can fly with his two tails, destroying these robots like they are nothing. That doesn't really mesh with the Terminator/Blade Runner meets Zootopia-looking world they were trying to establish in the premise.

 

Back then, it wasn't as noticeable since the gritter elements were given a more cartoonish design and some of the later episodes introduced some more fantastical elements into the lore. The same thing happened with the games - SA1, SA2 (to some extent), "Heroes" aimed for a more realistic enviorment but added a lot of fantasical stuff in order to make Sonic blend in. It wasn't until SHTH and 06 came around (the games that tried taking themselves more seriously in a realistic sense) that the contrast became a lot more apparent, thus later games like "Unleashed" tried finding a more common ground between the two styles. You got the goofy-looking anthropomorphic animals interacting with more cartoonish humans in a world that takes a lot of influence from real-life but through a more colorful lens. And that's the style most fans found the most appropriate for the series.

 

So really, Sonic's presence is the deciding factor. You either keep him how he is and make the series more strange and whimsical, or make him more realistic in order to fit the more serious-toned mold. But since his design is considered too iconic to change, that's kinda a detriment to the latter direction. The best they can do is add in equally weird elements in order for him to not stick out like a sore thumb.

 

 

 

I don't need a girl to be naked in order to develop a crush on her, it's the personality I find the most attractive. And Sally' character, while stubborn, is engaging enough on its own.

 

That's a lot of assumption you're heaping onto me.  One, you assume that I like her because she's naked.  Two you assume that she has to be naked for me to like her.  Three, you assume she's naked because she's bottomless and has nothing covering her chest.  Naked is a term reserved for humans, since we have no sufficient covering.  Animals have fur, or there need be some effort taken to see their genitalia, which is why for the most part you don't see us paying it much attention in day to day life.  Four, you assume I dislike the idea of her having clothes at all, which is weird, because the inclusion of the vest in Season 2 actually blew my mind as a kid - her charm only increased adding more, and for the life of me I don't know why.

 

You should be glad you're talking to me, because anyone else would think that's downright FN insulting and start tagging you from here on out.  But I'm easy going and it takes a bit to push me, and as I can see, you enjoy a good debate - me too - so I'll just address the points you're making.

 

I wasn't making an assumption, I was simply speaking about my preference and what I like about the character. It's not Sally's looks that makes me attracted, it's the personality and empowering disposition. Sally could've resembled a piece of alien broccoli for all I care and I still would've found her endearing.

 

It's common knowledge that Sally wasn't technically 'naked', being covered in fur and all, but that doesn't excuse the fact that she was drawn with a realistic human-looking figure which might've been alluring for certain fans back in the day. From what I can gather, some parents complained about it back then and that convinced the series' producers to have her wear her iconic vest to avoid the flack they were receiving. So even back in the day, people were noticing her questionable appearance.

 

That's not to say sexualization is bad or anything, but when you have a cast of cartoonish characters paired up with a female character with a semi-realistic figure, you can tell that there might be something off. You either make the rest of the characters look more realistic like she was or tone her design down just a bit. And since no one wants to see a realistic Sonic *shudder*, the latter seems to be the preferable option.

 

 

 

https://orig05.devia...g06-d6ull7k.png

 

Character traits from merely glancing at her:

- Cheery/cheerful (facial details)

- Cute (facial features)

- Sporty (the clothes)

- Looks like she belongs on a tennis court (again, the clothes)

- energetic (pose has energy)

- upbeat (pose exerts positive attitude)

- Dorky/nerdy (due to the hairstyle)

- Juvenile (face again)

- Spunky (standard dictionary definition: 

spunk·y
ˈspəNGkē/
adjective
informal
adjective: spunky; comparative adjective: spunkier; superlative adjective: spunkiest
  1. courageous and determined.
    "a spunky performance"
     
    Not the urban dictionary defintion, which is what I'd normally use this term for:  https://www.urbandic...php?term=spunky )

 

Now let's compare with the original Sally

 

https://vignette.wik...=20140726113313

 

Or even better yet,

 

http://i0.kym-cdn.co...248/487/b04.png

 

Since basically this is nothing more than someone expanding on the features that are already there and making them more noticeable:

 

- Mature (hair and face)

- Obvious leader

- Sassy (hair again)

- Serious/No nonsense (overall tone)

- Go getter (overall tone)

- Reserved (overall tone)

- Feminine (overall tone)

- Pretty (not cute in the same fashion)

- Fashionable (hair)

- Sideline character (don't expect her to knock down doors to kick your ass)

 

I expected for the redesign to retain these features, but they did away with them and/or even changed them to the opposite.  Now the only thing I have telling me that she might still be of these qualities is how she acts, with a fashion clash that says different about her.  Am I to believe I'm just too old fashioned?  Nowadays people tend to look at characters like say, Bumblebee in Michael Bay's Transformers movies, who's both a retard and a badass and they don't bat an eye.  Meanwhile characters who exude actual toughness and play the part get killed off, and yet again, no eye batting detected.

 

The way the character is drawn or depicted greatly depends on the artist, and a lot of them depict her modern design in different ways.

 

You got Rafa Knight's 3D models, which are meant to show off the characters basic personalities and design (reminiscent of SEGA's official artwork).

http://vignette2.wik...=20150422224701

 

But you also have other artists contributing their own takes.

 

Tracy Yardley's take is probably the closest one you're looking for, displaying elements that you seem to associate with Sally.

https://vignette1.wi...=20150608183610

 

And Diana Skelly (the guy who created the "Sonic Mania" opening animation) depicts her range of emotions in a more fun, cartoonish fashion.

http://2.bp.blogspot...Ic42/RCO008.jpg

 

So really, it's not always the character design, it also depends on the artist involved.

 

 

 

It gives the impression that she's prepared for action and ready to take one whatever threat is coming her way. And in a way, I find that sexier.

 

I'll be sure to call on a tennis player to come save my life if I ever get kidnapped by an evil madman, I assure you.

 

It's not that different than relying on a certain blue jogger. Or a Rastafarian who can glide with his dreadlocks.

 

 

 

That happens all the time with various properties. I mean, take Batman for instance. A millionaire who dresses up like a bat to scare bad guys? That's a pretty silly idea when you think about it, but it can be interpreted in a great many numbers of ways.

 

That's more comic book campy nonsense that had a culture all it's own.

 

What's the difference? Batman had different iterations; Sonic had different iterations.

 

 

 

And really, there are some kids who like the more serious stuff. I mean, my brothers and I grew up watching old movie series that had gunfights and violent fisticuffs, and we enjoyed them like candy. So it depends on the kid.

 

It's not about whether you can be accepting of the material being presented to you, that's what I'm trying to convey here.  It's about meeting artistic standards.  You can like music that's composed by complete amateurs, but people who actually create music having learned the structure and the foundations may listen to it and notice all of the mistakes and bad composition decisions.  It's why people who listen to well written music NOT SIMPLY FOR LISTENING PLEASURE BUT ARTISTIC COMPOSITION tend to hate easily thrown together crap like the majority of rap music....or inner city singers like Rihanna's "Work work work" song - seriously, there's like how many hundreds of videos of people who actually know a thing or two about making music making fun of that damned song where as the majority of 'average' people tend to like it.

 

So a speedy blue hedgehog fighting a fat, egg-shaped scientist who turns animals into robots constitutes it being a series for kids? Honestly, Sonic has more in common with franchises like "Winnie the Pooh" or "Darkwing Duck" in that it's a series meant to simply entertain for a general audience. It doesn't concern itself with pertaining to any particular age group or demographic.

 

 

 

 

Granted, Blaze's hair is more stylized and cartoonish, but the influence is still there.

 

Not really.  She'd need to have one ponytail and bangs to compliment it, if going by your example picture is what I'm supposed to be doing here.

 

Well, she does have shorter-length hair/fur if this picture is any indication.

 

http://i0.kym-cdn.co...652/550/c0e.png

 

 

No.  I don't like the "black teenager stereotype" because it's aesthetically displeasing - but let it be known that YOU coined the term, not me :P .  You wouldn't want to put say, some random dirt poor village child from some 3rd world country into a story where they intermingle with people of higher standing - it just looks bad and generates a sort of depressing feeling towards them (this is the reason why I absolutely DETEST animes like one piece).  In this case, Blaze just looks FN cheap, like she literally woke up, put on her best clothes, looked at her hair, said "F it", tossed in some barrettes and called it a day.

 

As opposed to Sonic, a random punk who kept his bed-hair moosed and decided just to run around nude? At least Blaze looks like she's properly dressed for the occasion. Sonic looks like he doesn't give a crap.

 

Honestly, I'd be more repulsed by Eggman/Robotnik. A man that obese wearing tight leather pants can't be healthy.

 

 

 

 

Wait... what?!

 

No, that's not the case at all. Male characters have blob feet as well.

 

http://images2.wikia...69/Tails_27.png

 

That's just another trait for all characters.

 

I would hope so.  But I've seen cases where male characters had toes.  I did see Chip depicted in the comic after all.  Does he not count?  I don't care if he had it in the games, again, everyone, or no one.

 

Chip isn't a Mobian though, he's a physical manifestation of Light Gaia, the guardian spirit of the planet.

 

If anything, his form appears to resemble that of a Mobini (those little critters Sonic rescues in the classic games), who apparently have toes, unlike their Mobian counterparts.

 

 

 

 

What do you mean by "different characters altogether"?

 

Exactly what I said.  If they were different characters, these designs would be fine.  That they are not makes those designs garbage as they aren't a good representation of the source material.

 

But what would be the point in that? Anyone familiar with the franchise can tell that they're meant to be the same characters we're familiar with.

 

If they really wanted to make them distinct, they would've had their species changed, colors swapped, personalities altered, and names replaced. If Sonic, Amy, Eggman can get redesigns, I don't see why the others can't.

 

 

 

Good judgment and objectivity are pretty subjective opinions.

 

That's where you're wrong.  I've said it above, but I'll say it again.  There are standards and structures to be followed when making design choices in something artistic.  Give a character with a color theme of pink, red and white, and expect anyone looking at them to throw taking them seriously out the door, because at that point the character looks like an FN candy cane.  Heck, orange and black are halloween colors, but need a specific distribution to make it apparent.  Mostly orange, depending on it's brightness and hue, with scarce black give's you a sort of charlie brown, while if you were to reverse it....  Well, the intended product occurs.

 

Isn't that the idea when it comes to Amy? That she's sweet and pretty? It's kinda like how Sonic's rebellious nature is modeled after the American flag.

 

With most color schemes for simple characters, you need to keep it around/under five at least. With Sonic, he's blue, red, and beige. With Tails, he's yellow, white and red. For modern Amy, her basic colors are pink, red, and white. It's much easier to memorize by association.

 

I find it better than her original design, which was just tacky-looking. You got pinks, greens, oranges, reds, whites, etc. It was just too much.

https://vignette.wik...=20150708101946

 

 

 

In my opinion, I like the newer designs. They're simpler and easier on the eyes, which makes them easier to draw (which was also the intention behind Sonic and Eggman's designs).
Their designs in the old continuity were too complicated and intricate compared to how Sonic was. Sally had long flowing strands of hair, Bunnie had too many cowboy accessories, Antoine's coat had too many elaborate details, and Rotor had tufts of hair, glasses, and a bomber jacket. There was just way too much stuff going on.

 

This argument that they're easier to draw now is actually a horrible thing.  This generation seems to want everything to be easier.  Forget putting work into your passions and hobbies, character designs are nothing more than a vector trace away.  I swear, by the year 2050, people will be drawing stick figures and thinking them masterpieces, and demanding you take them seriously.

 

Most of the worlds numerous iconic cartoon stars are simplistic by design. Mickey is basically a big circle with two smaller circles, Astro Boy has two "horns" jutting out his round head, Bart Simpson is a block with spikes on the top, and so on. It sticks better to the mind than something that's more complicated.

 

I mean, if you wanna draw something like He-Man then you're pretty much out of luck unless you happen to be a skilled artist. But not everyone is tuned to drawing perfect figures and memorizing intricate details. Some find it easier to draw a more simple or stylistic character rather than a character that looks like he was rotoscoped. So rather than exhausting yourself with a style you're not attuned to, make it your own way. That's how Piccaso and Van Gogh discovered their fame.

 

 

Ant's costume really isn't that hard to draw dude.  It's basic and simple.  Save complaints for drawing hands and feet at specific angles, then get back to me.

 

The SatAM art style was simplistic when compared to their more intricate designs in later appearances.

 

Bunnie started off relatively simple, like so:

https://vignette.wik...=20160323202015

 

But gradually became way too complicated to design, sporting way too many intricate details and accessories:

https://i.ytimg.com/...xresdefault.jpg

 

If the series was known for having heavily detailed characters since the beginning, it wouldn't be that bad since that would be its signature style. But Sonic, by design, is simplistic, so it looks out of place when paired with the more simpler-looking cast members.

 

That's the reason why the Archie reboot decided to make the character's redesign harken back to her earlier design.

http://vignette2.wik...=20140510064212



#17 RedAuthar

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 11:20 PM

SHTH?



#18 LogiTeeka

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 12:51 AM

SHTH?

 

The "Shadow the Hedgehog" game from 2005.



#19 ShenFNWoo

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 07:40 AM

 But that's the thing, they don't mesh. You look at the backgrounds of SatAM, the gritty cyberpunk designs of the Swatbots, and the semi-realistic looking characters (by that, I mean anthropomorphic animals that actually resemble their real-life counterparts - colors and everything) and you get the impression that it's a series that takes itself seriously.
Then suddenly, you got a Mickey Mouse-looking creature with conjoined eyes, superpowers, and questionable fur/hair running around at super speeds with a young fox that can fly with his two tails, destroying these robots like they are nothing. That doesn't really mesh with the Terminator/Blade Runner meets Zootopia-looking world they were trying to establish in the premise.
 
Back then, it wasn't as noticeable since the gritter elements were given a more cartoonish design and some of the later episodes introduced some more fantastical elements into the lore. The same thing happened with the games - SA1, SA2 (to some extent), "Heroes" aimed for a more realistic enviorment but added a lot of fantasical stuff in order to make Sonic blend in. It wasn't until SHTH and 06 came around (the games that tried taking themselves more seriously in a realistic sense) that the contrast became a lot more apparent, thus later games like "Unleashed" tried finding a more common ground between the two styles. You got the goofy-looking anthropomorphic animals interacting with more cartoonish humans in a world that takes a lot of influence from real-life but through a more colorful lens. And that's the style most fans found the most appropriate for the series.
 
So really, Sonic's presence is the deciding factor. You either keep him how he is and make the series more strange and whimsical, or make him more realistic in order to fit the more serious-toned mold. But since his design is considered too iconic to change, that's kinda a detriment to the latter direction. The best they can do is add in equally weird elements in order for him to not stick out like a sore thumb.

 



Well, the idea of super powered critter vs robots is really the source materials' fault.  And Satam's themes actually do mesh together real well.  They perfectly achieve the idea of vulnerable woodland creatures depending on a single super powered one to defeat the gritty, nasty, cold and calculating human beings.  As you've said in a post long ago, the show is nothing more than a cartoon take on the Ewoks.  It tries to go for a Don Bluth charm and though it's not quite perfect in that, it achieves it somewhat.

If you take a look at the original Sonic games, they're themes clashed as well.  You're pretty much picking at Satam for similar things done in the games.  The games were charming, mystical, artistic and hardcore and serious all at the same time – I guess it's because they didn't talk at all that made things all the more interesting.  Goofy designs all over everywhere, and then suddenly, Eggman shows up and you get this menacing tune in S1, a more fitting tune in S2, and again with the menace in S3, and back to a fitting tune (Japan version) in SCD.  These aren't things that are so out of place that they would require a lot of suspension of disbelief to tolerate.  Again, it's when the 3D games hit when things go to shit.


 

I wasn't making an assumption, I was simply speaking about my preference and what I like about the character. It's not Sally's looks that makes me attracted, it's the personality and empowering disposition. Sally could've resembled a piece of alien broccoli for all I care and I still would've found her endearing.

 



Yes, you were talking about your preference while implying (whether intentional or not) something about other's interest in her.  Since visualization is a part of human instincts, I highly doubt you'd be attracted to, fall in love with, crush on, or be highly endeared by a disfigured semblance of a person just because they encompass those qualities.



It's common knowledge that Sally wasn't technically 'naked', being covered in fur and all, but that doesn't excuse the fact that she was drawn with a realistic human-looking figure which might've been alluring for certain fans back in the day. From what I can gather, some parents complained about it back then and that convinced the series' producers to have her wear her iconic vest to avoid the flack they were receiving. So even back in the day, people were noticing her questionable appearance.

 



Yeah, and parents were dumb back then too.  An open chest vest solves all the problems.  Really, she wasn't as figured as you make her sound.  Her head was pretty much 70% the size of the rest of her body, and anything remotely resembling boobs was tapered off so much as to look more like a big tuft of fur.  They'd have been better off complaining about the near nudity in spandex that was Xmen during those days.  Strange what people will let off the hook.


 

That's not to say sexualization is bad or anything, but when you have a cast of cartoonish characters paired up with a female character with a semi-realistic figure, you can tell that there might be something off. You either make the rest of the characters look more realistic like she was or tone her design down just a bit. And since no one wants to see a realistic Sonic *shudder*, the latter seems to be the preferable option.

 


Sonic can be stylized to look a bit more believeable.  I've seen it done reasonably before.  And again, in Satam, Sally wasn't even all that sexy body wise, though our minds at the time may have exaggerated her looks because well.... look at that face.... :0
 

The way the character is drawn or depicted greatly depends on the artist, and a lot of them depict her modern design in different ways.

 


I know that.  But if the core design is sound, then you rarely get a different artist drawing her in a way that's offputting.  Despite my not liking some of the ways she was depicted in the earlier comics, they all still had the same charms.  Looking at her now, there's a reason she looks consistently like crap – because she is.  
 


You got Rafa Knight's 3D models, which are meant to show off the characters basic personalities and design (reminiscent of SEGA's official artwork). http://vignette2.wik...=20150422224701

 


Garbage...
 

But you also have other artists contributing their own takes.
 
Tracy Yardley's take is probably the closest one you're looking for, displaying elements that you seem to associate with Sally.
https://vignette1.wi...=20150608183610

 


You're joking, right?
 


And Diana Skelly (the guy who created the "Sonic Mania" opening animation) depicts her range of emotions in a more fun, cartoonish fashion.
http://2.bp.blogspot...Ic42/RCO008.jpg

 



There... in that 2nd depiction of her....  Closest thing to classic Sally I've seen since the reboot, and that's mostly because the hair doesn't look like trash.  How can you manage to come up with a character redesign so bad that she's never drawn consistent by ANYONE?

 

It's not that different than relying on a certain blue jogger. Or a Rastafarian who can glide with his dreadlocks.

 



I think you missed the point.  A blue jogger that runs up to 720 mph and a guy who can glide the winds with his hair and punch holes in the wall are way up the tiers in people I would count on to save me.

 

What's the difference? Batman had different iterations; Sonic had different iterations.

 



I was implying that there was this stupid, dorky little comic culture back in the 1950's (hell, everything was dorky back then I guess) that allowed for stuff like that.  These days creators were trying to capture that feel and blend it with more modern aesthetic.  It's more of a “how close to the original can we be and still maintain believability with today's trends?”

 

So a speedy blue hedgehog fighting a fat, egg-shaped scientist who turns animals into robots constitutes it being a series for kids? Honestly, Sonic has more in common with franchises like "Winnie the Pooh" or "Darkwing Duck" in that it's a series meant to simply entertain for a general audience. It doesn't concern itself with pertaining to any particular age group or demographic.

 


And you think that a basic overview like that constitutes it being for children?  For the life of me, I've seen so many series I can't name a single one that could help illustrate my point, so I'll just say this....  Go watch some bloody bunny or something, and get back to me.
 

Well, she does have shorter-length hair/fur if this picture is any indication.
 
http://i0.kym-cdn.co...652/550/c0e.png

 



Completely “bald” in the front.  What the hell.
 


As opposed to Sonic, a random punk who kept his bed-hair moosed and decided just to run around nude? At least Blaze looks like she's properly dressed for the occasion. Sonic looks like he doesn't give a crap.
 
Honestly, I'd be more repulsed by Eggman/Robotnik. A man that obese wearing tight leather pants can't be healthy.

 



You're deflecting
 

But what would be the point in that? Anyone familiar with the franchise can tell that they're meant to be the same characters we're familiar with.
 
If they really wanted to make them distinct, they would've had their species changed, colors swapped, personalities altered, and names replaced. If Sonic, Amy, Eggman can get redesigns, I don't see why the others can't.

 


If they don't embody all of the original's aspects, they're nothing more than successors.  I don't want successors, I want the originals.  I want the characters where I could simply look at them and think, “oh that's definitely them”.  There were times I was confused as to who I was actually looking at with Sally, Ant, and Rote, because they're that different.  Bunnie, not so much.  Nicole, not so much, though I prefered her previous costume.

 

Isn't that the idea when it comes to Amy? That she's sweet and pretty? It's kinda like how Sonic's rebellious nature is modeled after the American flag.

 


I think you're taking my color analogy too literally.

 

I mean, if you wanna draw something like He-Man then you're pretty much out of luck unless you happen to be a skilled artist.

 


Or not lazy.

 

That's how Piccaso and Van Gogh discovered their fame.

 



They discovered their fame because of postmodernist bullshit that was prevailent at the time.  While I can agree that I like some of their works, I would hardly attribute it to skill sometimes when it came to abstract art.  People come up with their own ideas of what denotes skill in a particular area, then others listen to the rubbish logic and simply agree, then judge the piece on the merits that were placed before them.  Just like rap music.  Lyrical flow and a message is prized above what normally makes a musical piece worthwhile, like composition, harmony, atmosphere and rhythm.  Forget what kind of mood music puts you into, “ I “ just want to vibe, manz...

 

The SatAM art style was simplistic when compared to their more intricate designs in later appearances.
 
Bunnie started off relatively simple, like so:
https://vignette.wik...=20160323202015
But gradually became way too complicated to design, sporting way too many intricate details and accessories:
https://i.ytimg.com/...xresdefault.jpg

 


Utskushi.... Shows that the series was attempting to grow up with the audience.  I miss stuff like that.

But gradually became way too complicated to design, sporting way too many intricate details and accessories:
https://i.ytimg.com/...xresdefault.jpg

 


And this actually looks fine for what it is.  If only they could've treated the other characters with this much respect.


My art:  http://shen-fn-woo.deviantart.com/

http://www.furaffini.../shenfuckinwoo/

 

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#20 LogiTeeka

LogiTeeka

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 09:56 AM

 

 But that's the thing, they don't mesh. You look at the backgrounds of SatAM, the gritty cyberpunk designs of the Swatbots, and the semi-realistic looking characters (by that, I mean anthropomorphic animals that actually resemble their real-life counterparts - colors and everything) and you get the impression that it's a series that takes itself seriously.
Then suddenly, you got a Mickey Mouse-looking creature with conjoined eyes, superpowers, and questionable fur/hair running around at super speeds with a young fox that can fly with his two tails, destroying these robots like they are nothing. That doesn't really mesh with the Terminator/Blade Runner meets Zootopia-looking world they were trying to establish in the premise.
 
Back then, it wasn't as noticeable since the gritter elements were given a more cartoonish design and some of the later episodes introduced some more fantastical elements into the lore. The same thing happened with the games - SA1, SA2 (to some extent), "Heroes" aimed for a more realistic enviorment but added a lot of fantasical stuff in order to make Sonic blend in. It wasn't until SHTH and 06 came around (the games that tried taking themselves more seriously in a realistic sense) that the contrast became a lot more apparent, thus later games like "Unleashed" tried finding a more common ground between the two styles. You got the goofy-looking anthropomorphic animals interacting with more cartoonish humans in a world that takes a lot of influence from real-life but through a more colorful lens. And that's the style most fans found the most appropriate for the series.
 
So really, Sonic's presence is the deciding factor. You either keep him how he is and make the series more strange and whimsical, or make him more realistic in order to fit the more serious-toned mold. But since his design is considered too iconic to change, that's kinda a detriment to the latter direction. The best they can do is add in equally weird elements in order for him to not stick out like a sore thumb.

 

Well, the idea of super powered critter vs robots is really the source materials' fault.  And Satam's themes actually do mesh together real well.  They perfectly achieve the idea of vulnerable woodland creatures depending on a single super powered one to defeat the gritty, nasty, cold and calculating human beings.  As you've said in a post long ago, the show is nothing more than a cartoon take on the Ewoks.  It tries to go for a Don Bluth charm and though it's not quite perfect in that, it achieves it somewhat.

If you take a look at the original Sonic games, they're themes clashed as well.  You're pretty much picking at Satam for similar things done in the games.  The games were charming, mystical, artistic and hardcore and serious all at the same time – I guess it's because they didn't talk at all that made things all the more interesting.  Goofy designs all over everywhere, and then suddenly, Eggman shows up and you get this menacing tune in S1, a more fitting tune in S2, and again with the menace in S3, and back to a fitting tune (Japan version) in SCD.  These aren't things that are so out of place that they would require a lot of suspension of disbelief to tolerate.  Again, it's when the 3D games hit when things go to shit.

 

The "Adventure" games did it just fine, as did "Heroes" and the handheld titles. Sure, the humans were meant to be more realistic-looking, but they were designed in an anime-sort of style. Plus, they had a lot of fantastical elements - much like SatAM did.

 

Where things started to get messed up is when SHtH and 06 tried pushing the more serious elements in a more realistic direction while Sonic and the gang remained the same. Even Eggman was given a more realistic design and it looked hilariously awful. It wasn't until "Unleashed" when a more proper blend of the two started to take shape.

 

 

 

I wasn't making an assumption, I was simply speaking about my preference and what I like about the character. It's not Sally's looks that makes me attracted, it's the personality and empowering disposition. Sally could've resembled a piece of alien broccoli for all I care and I still would've found her endearing.

Yes, you were talking about your preference while implying (whether intentional or not) something about other's interest in her.  Since visualization is a part of human instincts, I highly doubt you'd be attracted to, fall in love with, crush on, or be highly endeared by a disfigured semblance of a person just because they encompass those qualities.

 

You'd be surprised by what I personally find endearing. Sure, appearances can be complementary, but judging likeability just by looks alone is not my style since I think it's pretty shallow.

 

What I like about Sally is not only her intellect, determination, and leadership but also her modesty, her ability to cast aside her royalness and become an equal to the people she defends. But she has a flawed side as well, she can be just as stubborn as the blue hedgehog she is usually butting heads against, which makes it hard for her to admit her own mistakes. But she's willing to do better.

 

 

 

It's common knowledge that Sally wasn't technically 'naked', being covered in fur and all, but that doesn't excuse the fact that she was drawn with a realistic human-looking figure which might've been alluring for certain fans back in the day. From what I can gather, some parents complained about it back then and that convinced the series' producers to have her wear her iconic vest to avoid the flack they were receiving. So even back in the day, people were noticing her questionable appearance.

Yeah, and parents were dumb back then too.  An open chest vest solves all the problems.  Really, she wasn't as figured as you make her sound.  Her head was pretty much 70% the size of the rest of her body, and anything remotely resembling boobs was tapered off so much as to look more like a big tuft of fur.  They'd have been better off complaining about the near nudity in spandex that was Xmen during those days.  Strange what people will let off the hook.

 

They've complained about that as well. How else do you explain the various costume changes?

 

As for a comparison, let's compare Sally's finalized design for the first season:

https://vignette3.wi...=20130508100718

 

And compare it to Sally's original design from the pilot:

https://www.destruct...49-sonic.jpg');

 

The second one is more simplistic in proportions which makes her blend in more with Sonic's cartoonish physique. The enlarged head also seems to fit this style since it matches Sonic's signature look. The element was lost when they tried taking Sally in a more "realistic" direction, which made her stick out further. Even Bunnie had a more cartoonish physique throughout the show, so it can't be attributed to all female characters.

 

 

 

The way the character is drawn or depicted greatly depends on the artist, and a lot of them depict her modern design in different ways.

I know that.  But if the core design is sound, then you rarely get a different artist drawing her in a way that's offputting.  Despite my not liking some of the ways she was depicted in the earlier comics, they all still had the same charms.  Looking at her now, there's a reason she looks consistently like crap – because she is.

 

Not really. Some artists were downright awful at drawing her.

 

http://i.imgur.com/rkUZX8z.png

http://i.imgur.com/lDfjS.png

http://i.imgur.com/5sSQL.png

 

I can think of a better reason why you don't like the latter, and that's personal preference. There's nothing wrong with having one. It's obvious you prefer the original design; while I can see the appeal, I prefer having characters that feel consistent to a certain style. That way, there are fewer distractions.

 

 

 


You got Rafa Knight's 3D models, which are meant to show off the characters basic personalities and design (reminiscent of SEGA's official artwork). http://vignette2.wik...=20150422224701

 

Garbage...

 

As I said before, not all designs translate well into 3D. I mean, it wouldn't work for SatAM Sally either:

https://pre00.devian...ios-d916b5r.png

 

But honestly, I think Rafa's model is a pretty good rendition.

 

 

 

But you also have other artists contributing their own takes.
 
Tracy Yardley's take is probably the closest one you're looking for, displaying elements that you seem to associate with Sally.
https://vignette1.wi...=20150608183610

 

You're joking, right?

 

No.

 

 

 

And Diana Skelly (the guy who created the "Sonic Mania" opening animation) depicts her range of emotions in a more fun, cartoonish fashion.
http://2.bp.blogspot...Ic42/RCO008.jpg

There... in that 2nd depiction of her....  Closest thing to classic Sally I've seen since the reboot, and that's mostly because the hair doesn't look like trash.  How can you manage to come up with a character redesign so bad that she's never drawn consistent by ANYONE?

 

Skelly is more of a stylized artist. Perhaps you're looking for a design that's more cartoonish in appearance?

 

 

 

It's not that different than relying on a certain blue jogger. Or a Rastafarian who can glide with his dreadlocks.

I think you missed the point.  A blue jogger that runs up to 720 mph and a guy who can glide the winds with his hair and punch holes in the wall are way up the tiers in people I would count on to save me.

 

What about a skilled tennis player with lightsaber blades that can cut through solid steel? That sounds pretty badass.

 

 

 

What's the difference? Batman had different iterations; Sonic had different iterations.

I was implying that there was this stupid, dorky little comic culture back in the 1950's (hell, everything was dorky back then I guess) that allowed for stuff like that.  These days creators were trying to capture that feel and blend it with more modern aesthetic.  It's more of a “how close to the original can we be and still maintain believability with today's trends?”

 

We still have campier renditions of those properties. Marvel's "Super Hero Squad Show" and DC's "Batman: The Brave and the Bold" and "Krypto the Super Dog" are all goofier depictions of the source material. Even the original TMNT cartoon counts.

 

If they can have both sillier and serious-toned shows with hardly any complaints, I don't see why Sonic can't also have one as well.

 

 

 

So a speedy blue hedgehog fighting a fat, egg-shaped scientist who turns animals into robots constitutes it being a series for kids? Honestly, Sonic has more in common with franchises like "Winnie the Pooh" or "Darkwing Duck" in that it's a series meant to simply entertain for a general audience. It doesn't concern itself with pertaining to any particular age group or demographic.

 

And you think that a basic overview like that constitutes it being for children?  For the life of me, I've seen so many series I can't name a single one that could help illustrate my point, so I'll just say this....  Go watch some bloody bunny or something, and get back to me.

 

I said Sonic is for a general audience; I didn't say it was exclusively for kids. Anyone of any age can watch stuff like Winnie the Pooh or Darkwing Duck and still get some enjoyment out of it. Likewise, Sonic is no different.

 

 

 

Well, she does have shorter-length hair/fur if this picture is any indication.
 
http://i0.kym-cdn.co...652/550/c0e.png

 

Completely “bald” in the front.  What the hell.

 

She's not bald, she's furry.

 

 

 

As opposed to Sonic, a random punk who kept his bed-hair moosed and decided just to run around nude? At least Blaze looks like she's properly dressed for the occasion. Sonic looks like he doesn't give a crap.
 
Honestly, I'd be more repulsed by Eggman/Robotnik. A man that obese wearing tight leather pants can't be healthy.

You're deflecting

 

What? Weren't we talking about people we didn't want to socialize with?

 

 

 

But what would be the point in that? Anyone familiar with the franchise can tell that they're meant to be the same characters we're familiar with.
 
If they really wanted to make them distinct, they would've had their species changed, colors swapped, personalities altered, and names replaced. If Sonic, Amy, Eggman can get redesigns, I don't see why the others can't.

 

If they don't embody all of the original's aspects, they're nothing more than successors.  I don't want successors, I want the originals.  I want the characters where I could simply look at them and think, “oh that's definitely them”.  There were times I was confused as to who I was actually looking at with Sally, Ant, and Rote, because they're that different.  Bunnie, not so much.  Nicole, not so much, though I prefered her previous costume.

 

Well, they had to change them up since the Sonic series itself changed a lot (plus, there was also the stench of Penders).

 

Sally has gotten a lot of flack for being nude, despite having fur and wearing a vest and boots, so they had her wear clothes that would conceal her bareness while still keeping it within character.

 

Antoine's uniform was removed since male Mobian characters typically have less clothing. Plus, it was (unfortunately) tied to Penders because he gave it a backstory that can no longer be addressed.

 

And Rotor, well... fans got tired of him always being a minor character. So instead of regulating him to the background, they had him beefed up so that he can partake in the action.

 

And Nicole's original design invoked that of a Greek goddess, which made sense considering the city she controlled. Now that New Mobotropolis and the nanites are no longer present due to legal reasons, Nicole no longer had the need for that aesthetic.

 

 

 

Isn't that the idea when it comes to Amy? That she's sweet and pretty? It's kinda like how Sonic's rebellious nature is modeled after the American flag.

I think you're taking my color analogy too literally.

 

Well, it is a common color scheme for cute characters.

 

http://i.imgur.com/u6tptyK.png

 

 

 

I mean, if you wanna draw something like He-Man then you're pretty much out of luck unless you happen to be a skilled artist.

Or not lazy.

 

Some people prefer the more cartoony style. I myself do.

 

My biggest influences were cartoonists and animators like Fred Moore, Osamu Tezuka, and Bill Waterson.

 

Heck, you can take the lazier route and just trace live-action footage with no effort and you'll get the same results as He-Man.

 

 

 

That's how Piccaso and Van Gogh discovered their fame.

They discovered their fame because of postmodernist bullshit that was prevailent at the time.  While I can agree that I like some of their works, I would hardly attribute it to skill sometimes when it came to abstract art.  People come up with their own ideas of what denotes skill in a particular area, then others listen to the rubbish logic and simply agree, then judge the piece on the merits that were placed before them.  Just like rap music.  Lyrical flow and a message is prized above what normally makes a musical piece worthwhile, like composition, harmony, atmosphere and rhythm.  Forget what kind of mood music puts you into, “ I “ just want to vibe, manz...

 

While I agree that the postmodern movement can be incredibly pretentious for the wrong reasons, I still don't see anything wrong with having a distinct style. If all art looked the same, it would be boring.

 

 

 

The SatAM art style was simplistic when compared to their more intricate designs in later appearances.
 
Bunnie started off relatively simple, like so:
https://vignette.wik...=20160323202015
But gradually became way too complicated to design, sporting way too many intricate details and accessories:
https://i.ytimg.com/...xresdefault.jpg

Utskushi.... Shows that the series was attempting to grow up with the audience.  I miss stuff like that.

 

Honestly, it looks more like going through puberty, experiencing the embarrassing subculture phases, and having to survive high-school again.

 

You don't have to look edgy or complicated in order to be mature. I mean, shows like "Adventure Time" and such are very simplistic in style but convey a lot of heavy themes; stuff like death, suffering, mental illnesses, crushed relationships, and even existentialism. All while maintaining its simplistic art.

 

Heck, SatAM dealt with some really dark stuff and it still had cute animals as the protagonists.

 

 

But gradually became way too complicated to design, sporting way too many intricate details and accessories:
https://i.ytimg.com/...xresdefault.jpg

And this actually looks fine for what it is.  If only they could've treated the other characters with this much respect.

 

No, it wouldn't have worked. It clashes too much against Sonic's simple style.




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