Jump to content


Toggle shoutbox Shoutbox Open the Shoutbox in a popup

@  Wulfsbane : (09 September 2019 - 10:12 AM)

We'll probably see Tracer soon

@  Shadow : (06 September 2019 - 10:48 PM)

I'd rather see Mai in Smash

@  Wulfsbane : (06 September 2019 - 09:05 AM)

I'm more surprised about the Fatal Fury character.

@  Wulfsbane : (06 September 2019 - 08:00 AM)

Really wasn't keen on the idea of Sans being playable, but I guess he's in the same vein as Ness/Lucas

@  Wulfsbane : (06 September 2019 - 08:00 AM)

I think it works.

@  GamemasterAn... : (05 September 2019 - 06:53 AM)

So...Sans is a Mii Gunner costume for Smash. Comments?

@  Wulfsbane : (31 August 2019 - 08:00 PM)

Alright, AEW's All Out was pretty freaking good.

@  Wulfsbane : (20 August 2019 - 06:22 AM)

The Knux will Layeth the Smacketh Down all over your Candy Ass!

@  GamemasterAn... : (20 August 2019 - 05:59 AM)

"Finally, the Knux...HAS COME BACK...to Angel Island!"

@  Wulfsbane : (19 August 2019 - 07:26 PM)

Strangely I can see it.

@  Shadow : (18 August 2019 - 10:39 PM)

Imagine Dwayne Johnson voicing Knuckles...

@  Wulfsbane : (17 August 2019 - 02:31 PM)

The Rock has come back? XP

@  chief : (17 August 2019 - 02:26 PM)

http://www.sonicsatam.com/sea3on/ finally...

@  Wulfsbane : (17 August 2019 - 07:40 AM)

Good to hear.

@  chief : (13 August 2019 - 07:27 PM)

We are in talk with background artists actually...

@  Shadow : (13 August 2019 - 12:54 AM)

some traditional cel painted backgrounds would be lovely.

@  Shadow : (13 August 2019 - 12:54 AM)

Is their any plans on what might be added if the budget reaches a certain quota?

@  wildfire : (13 August 2019 - 12:05 AM)

Just saw the preview for Sea3son animated. It looks awesome! Voices are great. I only wish I had money to support.

@  wildfire : (12 August 2019 - 11:30 PM)

Glad to see this place is still bustling. I went through my old comics last night, made me think of you all. I miss this place sometimes.

@  Ishapar : (12 August 2019 - 10:39 AM)

Keep screaming, Redauthar.


Photo

Idw Comic Chatter


  • Please log in to reply
97 replies to this topic

#61 ShenFNWoo

ShenFNWoo

    Order of Swords Final Boss

  • Fellow FUSer
  • 165 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:MD

Posted 11 November 2018 - 12:37 PM

 

So you actually believe that what ComicsGate is about? Seeing as these 'gate' controversies keep happening when someone in the media (be it any level) gets caught doing something wrong, causing a chain reaction of others getting caught as well due to a 'paper trail', how do you at all believe in the smokescreen red herring they put up? It's the oldest trick in the book.

 
But that's what it is, isn't it?

 


So you completely ignored my explanation of how comicsgate started?
 
 

Well, what else could I really say in response?


Could've made the topic more about him rather than the topic he was talking about :P

 

Look, I'm not gonna act like Ian is a perfect guy here. He has his flaws, as I'm sure we all do. But in this particular case, I happen to see where he's coming from. I too have had similar experiences to what he's been through and I can understand his frustrations with those particular crowds. And really, simply talking about a subject somebody doesn't like is enough to make anyone look like a jerk to someone with differing viewpoints.

It sounds like you're continuously bringing up a specific instance or specific instances rather than the general attitude he's been displaying that I'm talking about. So I have to ask, what specific thing happened to him for him to go on his little crusade?

I'm also beginning to think you're purposely trying to avoid acknowledging what's wrong here.

- Comicsgate was given a falsely applied stigma/definition. What he says it is is WRONG.
- Easily fooled people are accepting this stigma and definition.
- Ian's labeling people who give him crap as comicsgaters.
- People, who aren't fond of bullies in general, stupidly believe it, and dismiss them as intolerable.


https://www.inverse....el-dc-gamergate<--- This is bullshit
https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Comicsgate<--- This is correct.


Here's the thing. What many people believe to be a problem is actually apart of something larger that they would definitely want to keep the way it is if they had any brains about it. It's freedom of speech. Limitting it in any fashion limits your own unless you're a damned hypocrite, because you have to take the good with the bad, or you're basically cheating in ways that others aren't allowed to, completely obliterating your credibility.  The internet allows you to have contact with people you would normally not be able to face under normal circumstances, because hell, 20+ years ago, you wouldn't be talking to ANY of these pros, and the best you could do is HOPE that your letter reaches them, and most likely, if it was negative feedback, they'd ignore it.  Now it's out in the open where everyone can see how they react to it, and comicsgate is a result of that.  If you're an adult, you can simply use the tools given to you by the platform and block them, or better yet, if you're really "mature", you can listen to their opinion, no matter how they state it, and respond appropriately and move on.  Ian did none of that.  He decided to take the scumbag route and try to rally people against his critics.  That's not a point of view, that's a FACT. 


My art:  http://shen-fn-woo.deviantart.com/

http://www.furaffini.../shenfuckinwoo/

 

Advertising the community "The Free Scrubs of Mobius".  Free of everything valuable, including humor.  Let them help you with your personal online conflicts, while ignoring your IRL struggles.  Participating in such honest activities as trying to undermine another community's right to govern their site by stealing their users.  Their banner:  http://orig08.devian...woo-db57bnk.png


#62 LogiTeeka

LogiTeeka

    Fellow FUSer

  • Fellow FUSer
  • 1,239 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 November 2018 - 01:32 PM

Could've made the topic more about him rather than the topic he was talking about :P

 

SmithyGCN is the one who brought it up. I thought the subject was about discussing his qualities as a writer. Discussing other things about the author himself doesn't really add anything to that topic.

 

 

I'm also beginning to think you're purposely trying to avoid acknowledging what's wrong here.

- Comicsgate was given a falsely applied stigma/definition. What he says it is is WRONG.
- Easily fooled people are accepting this stigma and definition.
- Ian's labeling people who give him crap as comicsgaters.
- People, who aren't fond of bullies in general, stupidly believe it, and dismiss them as intolerable.


https://www.inverse....el-dc-gamergate<--- This is bullshit
https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Comicsgate<--- This is correct.


Here's the thing. What many people believe to be a problem is actually apart of something larger that they would definitely want to keep the way it is if they had any brains about it. It's freedom of speech. Limitting it in any fashion limits your own unless you're a damned hypocrite, because you have to take the good with the bad, or you're basically cheating in ways that others aren't allowed to, completely obliterating your credibility.  The internet allows you to have contact with people you would normally not be able to face under normal circumstances, because hell, 20+ years ago, you wouldn't be talking to ANY of these pros, and the best you could do is HOPE that your letter reaches them, and most likely, if it was negative feedback, they'd ignore it.  Now it's out in the open where everyone can see how they react to it, and comicsgate is a result of that.  If you're an adult, you can simply use the tools given to you by the platform and block them, or better yet, if you're really "mature", you can listen to their opinion, no matter how they state it, and respond appropriately and move on.  Ian did none of that.  He decided to take the scumbag route and try to rally people against his critics.  That's not a point of view, that's a FACT. 

It sounds like you're continuously bringing up a specific instance or specific instances rather than the general attitude he's been displaying that I'm talking about. So I have to ask, what specific thing happened to him for him to go on his little crusade?

 

But he wasn't denouncing critics of his work - if anything, as long as they're reasonable, he acknowledges their critiques and tries improving off of them. What he was talking about was the self-entitled snobbery that some particular comic readers displayed towards him when he visited a comic book store.

 

As for my experience, I'd rather not go into too much detail since it was embarrassing. But to keep it basic, I said something about a particular comic series that I thought was interesting, but the guy who I was talking to started acting really elitist about his opinions in regards of the subject. It started to get uncomfortable when he went on rambling and objecting to everything I tried saying in response. Before long, I decided to leave the place because it was not only awkward but also really draining. I really tried respecting his opinions, but he didn't seem to return that sensibility - he felt like a control freak. And from most of my exposure to the ComicsGate movement, a lot of them seemed to embody that sort of mentality and it really disagrees with me. If what you said about the movement really started out that way, it certainly got worse when those sorts of people started joining it for bigoted reasons.



#63 ShenFNWoo

ShenFNWoo

    Order of Swords Final Boss

  • Fellow FUSer
  • 165 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:MD

Posted 11 November 2018 - 01:56 PM

 

Could've made the topic more about him rather than the topic he was talking about :P

 
SmithyGCN is the one who brought it up. I thought the subject was about discussing his qualities as a writer. Discussing other things about the author himself doesn't really add anything to that topic.

 


Oh no, that's not it. I'm talking about the conversation between you and me. You two are talking about something else almost entirely.
 
 

 

stuff

 
But he wasn't denouncing critics of his work - if anything, as long as they're reasonable, he acknowledges their critiques and tries improving off of them. What he was talking about was the self-entitled snobbery that some particular comic readers displayed towards him when he visited a comic book store.
 
As for my experience, I'd rather not go into too much detail since it was embarrassing. But to keep it basic, I said something about a particular comic series that I thought was interesting, but the guy who I was talking to started acting really elitist about his opinions in regards of the subject. It started to get uncomfortable when he went on rambling and objecting to everything I tried saying in response. Before long, I decided to leave the place because it was not only awkward but also really draining. I really tried respecting his opinions, but he didn't seem to return that sensibility - he felt like a control freak. And from most of my exposure to the ComicsGate movement, a lot of them seemed to embody that sort of mentality and it really disagrees with me. If what you said about the movement really started out that way, it certainly got worse when those sorts of people started joining it for bigoted reasons.

 


Finally, a bit more to the meat and bones of the situation. Your problem is with Elitism. You're going to run into that everywhere in any field. I'm pretty sure people will consider you an elitist prick on certain topics regardless of how agreeable you are as well, so keep that in mind. And just like me, you're going to sit there wondering how they came to that conclusion when you haven't done anything remotely resembling that sort of thing. 

 

It's not a thing inherent to comicsgate, or comics in general.  And comicsgate doesn't have a 'core' audience.  They're nebulous, just like gamergate and annonymous.  The ONLY time you can say that someone joined comicsgate for "bigotted reasons" is if you know someone personally that stated they did so for said reason.  And you'd only be able to say that about them only. 

 

 

I'm a black guy. 

 

If I see there's an established character who's white and is then replaced with a black, gay, latino, or what have you character, I'll be up in arms too.  Don't do that crap with people's beloved heroes.  Make new ones instead.  You'll get far less backlash.  I mean, look at the dumbster fire that is thundercats roar and she-ra netflix.  People are mad because the designs are so different, or they're not the same characters as before....

 

 

....LOL, JUST LIKE SMITTY AND ME HERE REGARDING SALLY ACORN x NICOLE.  JUST LIKE ALL THE JAPANESE SONIC PURISTS OUT THERE IN REGARDS TO SATAM - though that was more of a localization thing, and is harmless as it did establish itself almost like a separate entity.  None of us HAVE to get our way about things, but at least you should be able to understand that people want things the same way they were rather than have it altered to the point of being something else entirely. 

 

Case in point - comicsgate is a reaction to corruption in the comics industry, possibly due to SJW infection.  They understadably want to be rid of that.  NOT that they want to keep any race, or identity out of their industry.

 

Hopefully that clears things up a bit.


My art:  http://shen-fn-woo.deviantart.com/

http://www.furaffini.../shenfuckinwoo/

 

Advertising the community "The Free Scrubs of Mobius".  Free of everything valuable, including humor.  Let them help you with your personal online conflicts, while ignoring your IRL struggles.  Participating in such honest activities as trying to undermine another community's right to govern their site by stealing their users.  Their banner:  http://orig08.devian...woo-db57bnk.png


#64 LogiTeeka

LogiTeeka

    Fellow FUSer

  • Fellow FUSer
  • 1,239 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 November 2018 - 02:24 PM

Oh no, that's not it. I'm talking about the conversation between you and me. You two are talking about something else almost entirely.

 

I was intending to clarify some things that would've been misinterpreted. I wasn't intending it to collapse into a political discussion.

 

 

Finally, a bit more to the meat and bones of the situation. Your problem is with Elitism. You're going to run into that everywhere in any field. I'm pretty sure people will consider you an elitist prick on certain topics regardless of how agreeable you are as well, so keep that in mind. And just like me, you're going to sit there wondering how they came to that conclusion when you haven't done anything remotely resembling that sort of thing. 

 

It's not a thing inherent to comicsgate, or comics in general.  And comicsgate doesn't have a 'core' audience.  They're nebulous, just like gamergate and annonymous.  The ONLY time you can say that someone joined comicsgate for "bigotted reasons" is if you know someone personally that stated they did so for said reason.  And you'd only be able to say that about them only. 

 

I'm a black guy. 

 

If I see there's an established character who's white and is then replaced with a black, gay, latino, or what have you character, I'll be up in arms too.  Don't do that crap with people's beloved heroes.  Make new ones instead.  You'll get far less backlash.  I mean, look at the dumbster fire that is thundercats roar and she-ra netflix.  People are mad because the designs are so different, or they're not the same characters as before....

 

 

....LOL, JUST LIKE SMITTY AND ME HERE REGARDING SALLY ACORN x NICOLE.  JUST LIKE ALL THE JAPANESE SONIC PURISTS OUT THERE IN REGARDS TO SATAM - though that was more of a localization thing, and is harmless as it did establish itself almost like a separate entity.  None of us HAVE to get our way about things, but at least you should be able to understand that people want things the same way they were rather than have it altered to the point of being something else entirely. 

 

Case in point - comicsgate is a reaction to corruption in the comics industry, possibly due to SJW infection.  They understadably want to be rid of that.  NOT that they want to keep any race, or identity out of their industry.

 

Hopefully that clears things up a bit.

 

It does. And I can understand the annoyance towards the constant push for representation and keeping things safe.

 

But at the same time, I don't really mind change as long as it offers something new and interesting. I mean, I thought Marvel's take at an ill, comatose girl inheriting Thor's powers and assuming his identity was an interesting idea - I don't know how well it was executed since I never got to read those issues, but the idea in itself sounded neat.

 

I think I'm more lenient to these sorts of things because I've been exposed to many different incarnations and interpretations of classic characters. I mean, the Batman of the DCAU is totally different from the 60s Batman played by the late Adam West, but I learned to enjoy them both for what they were. The same goes for the Sonic series, and it's lead me to think up different creative ideas on familiar things I grew up with. If things remain stagnant, they become stale over time - there needs to be some variety to keep it alive and going.

 

The problem with Marvel, I think, is the fact that most of their comics are meant to share the same continuity that's been operating since the 60s. Had they bothered to give their franchise more varieties in universes like DC has been doing with their properties, I think these different interpretations of familiar characters would be more forgiving.



#65 ShenFNWoo

ShenFNWoo

    Order of Swords Final Boss

  • Fellow FUSer
  • 165 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:MD

Posted 11 November 2018 - 02:34 PM

Fair enough.  I like to try to adapt to new stuff as well.  I think the problem comes in with other aspects of diversity injection - that the writers often times insert their personal politics into these new interpretations of our favorite heros as if to say, "We're *enter minority here*!  Fuck white, straight men."  The rejection probably wouldn't be controversy spawning if it wasn't for so much of that happening along with it.  Kinda like how you expect a "enter demographic here" to do something because they are known to stereotypically do such.  So whenever someone starts putting in diversified characters, the thing on comicsgater's minds is like "oh boy, how long till I get called out on my privilege?"

 

FOR EXAMPLE...  Me and some friends binge watched the new castlevania series season 2, and one of our guys was about to get up in arms over the fact that Isaac was being portrayed by a black man.  The rest of the group looked at his original design, noticed that he's only appeared looking that way in one game, and was a minor character.  We wound up convincing him that it wasn't much of a problem, and that in fact, it was better than the original design.  I mean look at that thing D: -

 

Original:  61c4a1cd1291e3fd2efeacee59d7b843.jpg

Netflix version:  618733935a2948be3db44a2465d6b7d348974d55

 

And netflix Isaac is badass


My art:  http://shen-fn-woo.deviantart.com/

http://www.furaffini.../shenfuckinwoo/

 

Advertising the community "The Free Scrubs of Mobius".  Free of everything valuable, including humor.  Let them help you with your personal online conflicts, while ignoring your IRL struggles.  Participating in such honest activities as trying to undermine another community's right to govern their site by stealing their users.  Their banner:  http://orig08.devian...woo-db57bnk.png


#66 LogiTeeka

LogiTeeka

    Fellow FUSer

  • Fellow FUSer
  • 1,239 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 November 2018 - 03:03 PM

Fair enough.  I like to try to adapt to new stuff as well.  I think the problem comes in with other aspects of diversity injection - that the writers often times insert their personal politics into these new interpretations of our favorite heros as if to say, "We're *enter minority here*!  Fuck white, straight men."  The rejection probably wouldn't be controversy spawning if it wasn't for so much of that happening along with it.  Kinda like how you expect a "enter demographic here" to do something because they are known to stereotypically do such. 

 

The frequency of inserted diversity doesn't bother me nearly as much as the other problem it seems to be generating as of late - and that's the dependency on the character's ethnicity and/or orientation alone to carry their appeal; as if making the character this particular demographic alone is all that's needed to make him/her a fully engaging character.

 

It gets even more insulting when after all the talk surrounding this particular character being of this particular demographic is finally shown off for the first time, only for it to be completely pointless. All that hype over a gay character who you'd never guessed was supposed to be gay appearing in only a few select scenes? If I were one of them, I would feel cheated.

 

 

FOR EXAMPLE...  Me and some friends binge watched the new castlevania series season 2, and one of our guys was about to get up in arms over the fact that Isaac was being portrayed by a black man.  The rest of the group looked at his original design, noticed that he's only appeared looking that way in one game, and was a minor character.  We wound up convincing him that it wasn't much of a problem, and that in fact, it was better than the original design.  I mean look at that thing D: -

 

Original:  61c4a1cd1291e3fd2efeacee59d7b843.jpg

Netflix version:  618733935a2948be3db44a2465d6b7d348974d55

 

And netflix Isaac is badass

 

Yeah, the Netflix version looks much more appealing. I think it's because they greatly simplified the design and toned down some of the stranger additions made in the original.



#67 SmithyGCN

SmithyGCN

    Fellow FUSer

  • Fellow FUSer
  • 28 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Beeville, Texas

Posted 13 November 2018 - 02:49 PM

About the creator of Amy liking SatAM. You know why that's significant? Because reportedly, Japanese don't like Western anything. You know what else is significant? That western cartoons are popular in Japan. That tells you right there that the SatAM crew still have a chance.

 

And all this talk about Ian is making me frustrated. It's clear you aren't listening to a word we say about him even though the guy has proven himself to be a chronic liar and a blatant SJW. I'm tired of debating this. When I first made my views on the IDW series known, I didn't think that this would turn into a giant fight, but, no, guess I was wrong.

 

In either case, I'm staying out of this right now unless I feel the need to step in, which is unlikely. I don't mean to sound like an impotent jerk, but it's unavoidable at this point. <=/



#68 LogiTeeka

LogiTeeka

    Fellow FUSer

  • Fellow FUSer
  • 1,239 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 November 2018 - 07:30 PM

About the creator of Amy liking SatAM. You know why that's significant? Because reportedly, Japanese don't like Western anything. You know what else is significant? That western cartoons are popular in Japan. That tells you right there that the SatAM crew still have a chance.

 

No, that doesn't really change the situation much, if at all. While it does show that not everyone working with Sonic Team disliked the show, that doesn't change the fact that it isn't recognized as part of the canon. Sonic Team has that habit of ignoring most things that were created by other parties. I mean, if they had any interest in integrating the SatAM cast into the games, they would've already done so instead of relying on comic writers to find a way of integrating them into a noncanon spinoff series.

 

Also, no. SatAM was never big in Japan since it apparently never aired there. Heck, the Sonic franchise, in general, has always struggled with the Japanese market - his primary appeal has mostly stemmed from American and European audiences. That's not to say that Japanese fans of the franchise or the show don't exist, but it's not as widely recognized there as it is here.

 

 

And all this talk about Ian is making me frustrated. It's clear you aren't listening to a word we say about him even though the guy has proven himself to be a chronic liar and a blatant SJW. I'm tired of debating this. When I first made my views on the IDW series known, I didn't think that this would turn into a giant fight, but, no, guess I was wrong.

 

In either case, I'm staying out of this right now unless I feel the need to step in, which is unlikely. I don't mean to sound like an impotent jerk, but it's unavoidable at this point. <=/

 

I'm not expecting you to like the comic series or Ian Flynn's writing, but I am here to express my opinions and clarify some serious misconceptions about the guy and how SEGA operates. And much of the stuff you've been sharing on this forum has already been clarified or debunked.



#69 SmithyGCN

SmithyGCN

    Fellow FUSer

  • Fellow FUSer
  • 28 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Beeville, Texas

Posted 13 November 2018 - 08:37 PM

Ugh. I guess I have to step in AGAIN. Anyway, it does hint that Sega has SOME interest. On top of that, Sega has been including some inspiration from the show into their games and business demands that if there is demand for something, they will do something as interest means money. There are quite a few people who love the show and its characters. Sooner or later, there will most likely be something that correlates to those characters. It's business.

 

What misconceptions? They aren't misconceptions if they're true. Ian is an SJW. He has made his views known and follows what's most progressive. Nothing misconceptualized about that. You think Ian's the big savior of Sonic, but the guy has proven otherwise. I feel at this point, that even if I provided photos of the guy's tweets, you STILL wouldn't believe me.

 

EDIT: Also, if the audience is mostly western, why doesn't Sega try to cater to us if Japan is apparently indifferent in your eyes? Why would they bother with Japan?



#70 Quickster

Quickster

    Fellow FUSer

  • Fellow FUSer
  • 81 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Mobotropolis

Posted 13 November 2018 - 09:13 PM

Ugh. I guess I have to step in AGAIN. Anyway, it does hint that Sega has SOME interest. On top of that, Sega has been including some inspiration from the show into their games and business demands that if there is demand for something, they will do something as interest means money. There are quite a few people who love the show and its characters. Sooner or later, there will most likely be something that correlates to those characters. It's business.


Yes, I believe SatAM gave us much of what we love about Sonic. In fact, Archie's Sonic was loosely based on SatAM. But something that correlates to Sally and the others? I don't see that happening. SatAM was made way back in 1993 (happy 25th, SatAM!). I think they were good for Archie if used properly. but for now, I don't see them getting more recognition, except for maybe IDW much later down the road.

As for interest, they have to be interested if they allowed cameos of Sally and Bunnie in the Forces prequel comics. Unless that was all Ian. Either way, it's still cool.

What misconceptions? They aren't misconceptions if they're true. Ian is an SJW. He has made his views known and follows what's most progressive. Nothing misconceptualized about that. You think Ian's the big savior of Sonic, but the guy has proven otherwise. I feel at this point, that even if I provided photos of the guy's tweets, you STILL wouldn't believe me.


If Ian's an SJW, that might explain the Sally x Nicole ship. But hey, at least it wasn't really in-your-face.

I beg to differ, but he did, in fact, save Archie. How can you not like the guy who saved the comic from the writing of Ken Penders? The guy who wrote the awesome House of Cards arc? The guy who wrote TWO crossovers with Mega Man? How can you not like the guy who gave us Scourge the Hedgehog?! (Even if Penders came up with the concept.)

Also, if the audience is mostly western, why doesn't Sega try to cater to us if Japan is apparently indifferent in your eyes? Why would they bother with Japan?


Maybe because Sega is a Japanese-based company like Nintendo?
Hyped for the Sonic 2019 movie and the Mario 2022 movie!

Currently writing Chaos on Earth: A Sonic X Rewrite on FanFiction.net!

#71 SmithyGCN

SmithyGCN

    Fellow FUSer

  • Fellow FUSer
  • 28 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Beeville, Texas

Posted 13 November 2018 - 09:32 PM

But a company needs to make money. If Japan's not as interested as Logiteeka claims, than why aren't they branching out? It would make more sense.

 

Now, I won't contend with Ian writing actually good stories when he was first starting out, but he has said the reboot was a fast forward button on his agenda. That means that's what he intended from the beginning. The guy just can't be trusted.



#72 RedAuthar

RedAuthar

    The Spambot Killer.

  • Admins
  • 38,553 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Knothole

Posted 14 November 2018 - 12:09 AM

But a company needs to make money. If Japan's not as interested as Logiteeka claims, than why aren't they branching out? It would make more sense.

But isn't that where the debate began in the first place?  

 

Think about it, there's already an outcry for the changes in the comics, which is a very small portion of the fan base.  You yourself don't like the changes Ian made in Sally or Nicole and don't like the direction of the current IDW comic line.  Imagine now if that happened in the games.  There'd be a larger outcry, specifically as there are quite a few Sonic fans who don't like the SatAM and Archie Characters (just spend like 5 minutes on deviant art).  Heck, there was an outcry when the redesigned the cast for Boom, even before the game came out.  

 

Simply put, yes a company needs to make money, but branching out is just as likely to cause harm as it is to provide a benefit.  It's honestly a safer bet for SEGA to not include the characters, specifically if their ownership is still up in the air.  So instead the branch out with things like comics and cartoons, which are all considered non-canon to the games. 

 

Lastly, something many fans overlook, if the Freedom Fighters were to appear in the SEGA Sonic Universe (or whatever it's called) they likely wouldn't be the version you envision.  Just like how Archie redesigned their personalities (heck Antoine got his last name changed) from SatAM, and the reboot did it again from the previous universe, SEGA would likely redesign them to fit in their existing universe.  Which in itself would open a new can of worms.



#73 LogiTeeka

LogiTeeka

    Fellow FUSer

  • Fellow FUSer
  • 1,239 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 14 November 2018 - 03:49 AM

Ugh. I guess I have to step in AGAIN. Anyway, it does hint that Sega has SOME interest. On top of that, Sega has been including some inspiration from the show into their games and business demands that if there is demand for something, they will do something as interest means money. There are quite a few people who love the show and its characters. Sooner or later, there will most likely be something that correlates to those characters. It's business.

 

SEGA is aware of the series existence, but that doesn't mean the creative teams running the franchise have any interest in reviving or utilizing any said elements.

 

If they did have any sort of investment in the show, we would've gotten more from them than just a comic-book spinoff that endured for years purely off of readership. We would've likely gotten more shows, the characters appearing in the games, and much more merchandise. Yet that clearly isn't the case, especially nowadays; they're currently engaged with their modern cast of characters to pay much heed to characters they had little involvement in creating.

 

 

What misconceptions? They aren't misconceptions if they're true. Ian is an SJW. He has made his views known and follows what's most progressive. Nothing misconceptualized about that. You think Ian's the big savior of Sonic, but the guy has proven otherwise. I feel at this point, that even if I provided photos of the guy's tweets, you STILL wouldn't believe me.

 

I think the keyword you're looking for is progressive. Ian doesn't shy away from incorporating elements that would appeal to certain demographics into the comics. Lots of comic book writers do this; they've been doing it since the 60s.

 

A typical SJW is someone who is constantly offended by everything, no matter how offensive it is, and is constantly assembling protests online over the slightest little quirk that upsets them.

 

 

EDIT: Also, if the audience is mostly western, why doesn't Sega try to cater to us if Japan is apparently indifferent in your eyes? Why would they bother with Japan?

 

That's the question the fanbase has been asking since the late 90s. If I had to guess the reason why, since the majority of Sonic Team is located in Japan, it's likely they have limited exposure to what Western audiences want. Even then, there might be other factors at play.

 

Now, I won't contend with Ian writing actually good stories when he was first starting out, but he has said the reboot was a fast forward button on his agenda. That means that's what he intended from the beginning. The guy just can't be trusted.

 

No, the reboot was the result of the lawsuit between Archie and Penders going awry. Its creation was sort of a rush job since Ian had to create an entirely new universe from scratch, with only the elements that they were still allowed to utilize.



#74 Sunnyfruit

Sunnyfruit

    Fellow FUSer

  • Fellow FUSer
  • 76 posts

Posted 15 November 2018 - 07:49 AM

A typical SJW is someone who is constantly offended by everything, no matter how offensive it is, and is constantly assembling protests online over the slightest little quirk that upsets them.


sounds like comicsgaters

#75 LogiTeeka

LogiTeeka

    Fellow FUSer

  • Fellow FUSer
  • 1,239 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 November 2018 - 08:48 AM

sounds like comicsgaters

 

Yeah, there is irony to be found there.



#76 ShenFNWoo

ShenFNWoo

    Order of Swords Final Boss

  • Fellow FUSer
  • 165 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:MD

Posted 16 November 2018 - 08:09 AM

Sounds like:

 

- Quite a few people here don't actually know what a comicsgater is

- Quite a few people here don't actually know what an SJW is

 

Things that comicsgaters are not (or don't have to necessarily be):

 

- People you disagree with

- People you consider assholes

- Elitist pricks

- Misogynists

- Racists

- Biggots

- "Diversity" adversaries

- White Nationalists

- Trump Supporters

- Trolls

 

(technically, this list could be summed up as, people who you believe are assholes that you disagree with)

 

SJWs however, are:

 

- Hypocrites

- counterproductive

- loud and outspoken

- obnoxious

- intollerant

- poorly veiled racists, misogynists, homophobes, transphobes, and biggots, but they just don't know it.

- promotes feelings over facts

- free speech adversaries

 

They want what they want without thinking about the best possible way to achieve it, often times putting forth ideas that will undermine their own rights calling more for subjective interpretation at any one given time on what should be considered good or right.  For example," I want free speech, but don't want hate speech".  Unfortunately, you get rid of one, you get rid of the other.  You have to take the good with the bad, because if you eliminate the bad, you eliminate the good with it, as those laws 'you' want passed to stop hate speech will then limit what YOU can say too!  Like in my community, the black community, we are all for calling all other races, religions, and what have you by pejoratives or their designated racial/religious slurs.  The moment someone gets called a nig nog, they lose their absolute shits.  In a world ruled by hate speech laws, black people would suffer the most, as they're the worst offenders, yet they make up a sizable portion of the SJW crowd.    You name a 'protected group' of people participating in SJW shenanigans, and I can name you every single way they're shooting themselves in the foot. 

 

Knowing what comicsgate is truly about,

 

 

 

(AKA NOTHING POLITICAL)

 

 

 

(THIS SHOULD SEND RED FLAGS UP TO ANYONE WHO'S THINKING, A NONPOLITICAL MOVEMENT IS BEING DEEMED POLITICAL BY PEOPLE WHO ARE CRITICS OF IT)

 

 

The ONLY sensible conclusion is to be part of it, because it does you no favors to be against it.  Just because people who identify as such can be assholes doesn't mean they're not RIGHT.  An asshole can and will be right.  Denying this fact makes one appear less disciplined (looking for a replacement word for "mature", as I hate that word) than they'd want.


My art:  http://shen-fn-woo.deviantart.com/

http://www.furaffini.../shenfuckinwoo/

 

Advertising the community "The Free Scrubs of Mobius".  Free of everything valuable, including humor.  Let them help you with your personal online conflicts, while ignoring your IRL struggles.  Participating in such honest activities as trying to undermine another community's right to govern their site by stealing their users.  Their banner:  http://orig08.devian...woo-db57bnk.png


#77 LogiTeeka

LogiTeeka

    Fellow FUSer

  • Fellow FUSer
  • 1,239 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 November 2018 - 10:04 AM

ComicsGaters might be a generalized term, but it's still hard (at least for me) to sympathize with a group that seems to be regularly opposed to representation in comic books and whose advocates often attack and harass certain people who they blame to be part of the problem.

 

Sure, the other side isn't any better - the overabundance of left-leaning material has become hackneyed by this point and all the harassment and blacklisting from the leftists is a terrible thing to put anyone through (no matter how despicable they are) - but it really seems silly to believe that comic books should avoid any current political subjects and issues whatsoever when they've always been that way since their very conception. You had the debut of Captain America socking Hitler right in the face before the US even entered the war and that drew a lot of complaints, the X-Men was pretty blatant in its allegorical representation during the 60s Civil Rights movement and it too caused quite the stir, and there's all the stuff created during the Regan administration, the AIDS epidemic, and the War on Terror. Sure, comic books are a form of escapism, but it seems naive to claim that comics never had anything to do with politics.

 

And the whole heated topic of women characters with less idealized features, with one side expressing that women with perfect characteristics are demeaning objectifications while the others don't like their women exhibiting features that they deem as 'unwomanly'... Really? It's a fact of nature that everyone looks totally different from the other and not every gender follows a specific template. You'd think people would've already accepted this reality by now, judging by how long it's been going on for, but it seems not. These arguments seem awfully petty towards both sides.

 

Honestly, this whole dispute seems like it's leading to nowhere. I can't help but wonder if this will be the fate of comic books instead of declining physical sales.



#78 ShenFNWoo

ShenFNWoo

    Order of Swords Final Boss

  • Fellow FUSer
  • 165 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:MD

Posted 16 November 2018 - 10:53 AM

ComicsGaters might be a generalized term,

 

That's the problem, you're generalizing, and either refuse to, or have a hard time dealing with individuals separately.  I'll explain, one last time how...

 

but it's still hard (at least for me) to sympathize with a group that seems to be regularly opposed to representation in comic books and whose advocates often attack and harass certain people who they blame to be part of the problem.

 

 

Right here.  There's multiple problems with this one paragraph. 

 

You said a group.  I've already said multiple times that comicsgate, just like gamergate, and annonymous, is a NEBULOUS group.  That is, there's no central core unit.  There's no one person responsible for the direction or misdirection.  There's no one person or group of people to cast the blame on.  It's just a loosely banded together affiliation where someone can say "I'm a comicsgater" one minute, and then leave the next.  Someone could claim to be a comicsgater, bomb some us government building, and comicsgaters wouldn't have anything to worry about as far as responsibility, because none of them had any idea what any one of them were doing at any given moment.

 

You assume we're against representation.  This assumes we're all of one mind to do this, and takes into account none of the reasons WHY we'd be against THE WAY the representation is being handled.

 

You assume that the people receiving the harassment are innocent little saints.  Attacks just don't materialize out of thin air.  Something PROVOKED it.  But again, without specific examples, you're accounts of harassment are rather vague and can't be touched down upon much.  I'm beginning to think that you're "strategically" leaving it vague so that I can't debunk it.

 

You assume that the people who are doing the harassing are doing it for the sake of comicsgate.  There's a thing called 'the Greater Internet Asshole/fuckwad theory'.  People like to troll, and use anything as a reason to troll.  "Oh hey, I'm a comicsgater, and you're a n_____ b____ k____ f____ d_____!!!"  Anything and everything will be used as an excuse to troll, because annonimity and a person = complete fucking asshole, as you can't pin the blame anywhere.

 

You're acting like a perpetual victim.  Seriously, these comments aren't going to kill you.  They're words on a screen.  You'll live.  They'll live.  Hopefully everyone gets thick skin and learns how to operate on the internet seeing as the G.I.F.T. is a given by now. 

 

All this taken into consideration, under no circumstances can you say that comicsgaters are a bad people, because there ARE NO CORE MORAL VALUES BETWEEN US.  We just want good comics.  We want a fair share of being able to start our own comics when the comics we used to like start sucking.  The only thing we agree on is that ANY kind of concept being forced into our subject matter needs to be eliminated.  Key word, "forced"

 

 

political stuff

 

The issue mainly stems NOT from the political stuff per se, but rather the way they usually insult and attack their own audience just to insert their agendas into the comic.  I'm pretty sure you can punch hitler in the face or call out actual racists for being racist without telling your core audience, innocent of being these things, that they're scum and need to stop buying the books.

 

 

And the whole heated topic of women characters with less idealized features,

 

The argument there isn't that they dont' exist, it's that they don't look attractive.  The same reason you don't see creepers who look like the stereotypical pedophiles running around being heroes is the same reason people don't want to see overweight, hideous girls play superheroes.  A balding, 40 year old man with a beer belly hanging out of his shirt with Fred Flinstone 5'oclock shadow isn't going to get any time in the limelight either..... as anything other than a badguy or a background character anyway.  What balding, overweight guy has come forward talking about "hey gusy, I want repruhzentashun too!"?  None, because they know they're not attractive, and comics being an escape from reality, you want to see pretty people doing cool shit. 

 

 

Honestly, this whole dispute seems like it's leading to nowhere.

 

Between us or between the divided comic's community?  Because I can tell you, between us, it just seems you refuse to broaden your definition of the term.  You're too used to what your comic pros told you it was.  I've already considered the opposing opinions' side, and just because you're allowed to do something doesn't mean you get to be free from negative feedback about it.  If you don't change existing characters, you'll most likely be fine, but you'll still get hate mail for the side comics you put out too.  You can't have a sheild against all the bad things people say.  You can only get used to them.

 

Diversity is good only when it's not forced, and there's a need for it.  This idea that you can glorify any lifestyle is a bunch of bullshit.  *Shrug*


My art:  http://shen-fn-woo.deviantart.com/

http://www.furaffini.../shenfuckinwoo/

 

Advertising the community "The Free Scrubs of Mobius".  Free of everything valuable, including humor.  Let them help you with your personal online conflicts, while ignoring your IRL struggles.  Participating in such honest activities as trying to undermine another community's right to govern their site by stealing their users.  Their banner:  http://orig08.devian...woo-db57bnk.png


#79 LogiTeeka

LogiTeeka

    Fellow FUSer

  • Fellow FUSer
  • 1,239 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 November 2018 - 12:44 PM

Okay, then what would the proper definition be for those sorts of individuals? It seems like the movement (or whatever it is) would be more approachable if they try distinguishing the different types of people more so that they won’t be associating the innocent supporters’ names with a bunch of people that actually mean to do more harm than good. As someone who tries staying relatively neutral because I can’t fully agree with either side, it’s hard to distinguish fact from fiction when both sides are constantly trying to tear each other a new one.

Punching Hitler and having innocent mutants be unreasonably discriminated against might be commonly accepted tropes in comics nowadays (for the most part), but back when they were first published they basically were direct attacks at people who were of those sorts of disposition. The US had a number of Nazi sympathizers before the country was forced to enter the war and there were a lot of people who were adamantly opposed to the equal rights movement, yet that didn’t stop the creatives from creating heroes that expressed their authors’ controversial beliefs at the time. It doesn’t seem like much has really changed in that regard; it’s just that time has passed since those earlier issues and most people have since grown more accustomed to those beliefs that they lost their initial controversy.

I get character appeal, but when something of beauty becomes so repetitive it kinda looses its appeal. Pretty soon, the character design isn’t really beautiful anymore - it’s just standard and oftentimes gratuitous. Plus, I do agree that it can generate unfortunate implications for impressionable minds, leading many people to think that they themselves can’t be attractive in their own unique way. I mean, does She-Ra’s new design really warrant the criticism of being slightly different? Does her overall appeal as a character really depend on how much of her body is shown?

The dispute I mentioned was about the divided comic book industry.

#80 ShenFNWoo

ShenFNWoo

    Order of Swords Final Boss

  • Fellow FUSer
  • 165 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:MD

Posted 16 November 2018 - 02:20 PM

Okay, then what would the proper definition be for those sorts of individuals? It seems like the movement (or whatever it is) would be more approachable if they try distinguishing the different types of people more so that they won’t be associating the innocent supporters’ names with a bunch of people that actually mean to do more harm than good. As someone who tries staying relatively neutral because I can’t fully agree with either side, it’s hard to distinguish fact from fiction when both sides are constantly trying to tear each other a new one.

 

There's a ton of problems with this paragraph too.  One, the idea that being part of the group identity that is loosely defined can be used to determine what kind of person you are is the height of folly, madness and laziness.  The internet proves time and time again that just because one is in a group, they don't all share the exact same opinions on every issue, or even have the same morals when thinking about how to achieve what they want done.  At this point, it's only fair to treat people as individuals and use only the clearly defined traits (not stereotypes) to refer to the entire lot. 

 

Also let me tell you, I feel like both Ethan Van Sciver, and Diversity and Comics (apparently the "forefathers" of comicsgate) are idiots.  Not because of anything they represent, but I just don't like them.  D&C makes 20 minute videos babbling on and on about bullshit no one gives a shit about when he could've made his point ages ago, and refuses to stop, so I unsubscribed, and same goes with Ethan Van Sciver.  Dude sounds like he's got a cheeseburger stuck in his mouth at all times, and thinks his audience is too stupid to read internet articles by themselves, instead choosing to record his tablet and play read along using his pen to pinpoint every word he reads.  They can both kiss my ass.

 

Yes, there are a lot of right wingers and free speech assholes within comicsgate.  That's more of the end result of what the comics pros did to get those types of people to gather together in the first place.  Had they not ostracized right wingers and trump supporters, getting on their twitter and saying things that the comic book company wouldn't allow, or SHOUlDN'T allow because it hurts their image to alienate their audience, they wouldn't have pushed those people towards that group, and you'd have less of those types to deal with (*see sidenote).

 

And there's already a term made for people who go around screwing with people over the internet for no good reason - "trolls".  Trolls are everywhere.  They're the good guys, they're the bad guys, they're the in between. 

 

(Sidenote:  I don't believe a company should be held responsible for what it's employees say, because at the end of the day, everyone's their own individual.  I beleive people take it out on the company in this case because the people involved are directly attacking their customers, not just saying "this is my opinion, I'm not vilifying anyone".)

 

Punching Hitler and having innocent mutants be unreasonably discriminated against might be commonly accepted tropes in comics nowadays (for the most part), but back when they were first published they basically were direct attacks at people who were of those sorts of disposition. The US had a number of Nazi sympathizers before the country was forced to enter the war and there were a lot of people who were adamantly opposed to the equal rights movement, yet that didn’t stop the creatives from creating heroes that expressed their authors’ controversial beliefs at the time. It doesn’t seem like much has really changed in that regard; it’s just that time has passed since those earlier issues and most people have since grown more accustomed to those beliefs that they lost their initial controversy.

 

Yes, the issue here isn't actually something as clearly black and white as pointing out wrongdoers and calling them that.  Racism is bad period.  Nazi's were bad period.  Under no definition could you even mistakenly think otherwise.  The issue here is that the current pollitical climate is becoming way too soft and are falsely flagging anyone with a dissenting opinion as an aggressor who must be silenced, deplatformed, and ruined financially.  It's getting out of control and the mainstream media is trying to force everyone down a homogenized path of white guilt, forced diversity and political correctness.  No matter how you look at it, the badguys that everyone are pointing out as being bad, are cultivated and facilitated BY THESE SO CALLED GOOD GUYS.  "You" are manufacturing your own outrage by treating people who are fighting back as enemies.  And THIS is why Donald Trump is president.  Not because some hateful mob rose out of the 4th dimension space between spaces, not because hidden racists showed up from out of nowhere, etc - seriously, a great deal of people who voted for Trump previously voted for Obama, think about that. 

 

 

I get character appeal, but when something of beauty becomes so repetitive it kinda looses its appeal. Pretty soon, the character design isn’t really beautiful anymore - it’s just standard and oftentimes gratuitous. Plus, I do agree that it can generate unfortunate implications for impressionable minds, leading many people to think that they themselves can’t be attractive in their own unique way. I mean, does She-Ra’s new design really warrant the criticism of being slightly different? Does her overall appeal as a character really depend on how much of her body is shown?

The dispute I mentioned was about the divided comic book industry.

 

I agree that different body types should be embraced.  If you go to my deviantart gallery or my furaffinity gallery, albeit a more adult rated content, you'll see that I put different kinds in there together (even though I lean more towards the fit kinds). 

 

And yes, Netflix She Ra is getting a bit of undeserved hate.  I plan on trashing the series myself, as I'm watching it with friends in our discord server, but I noticed right off the bat that these guys were picking apart at every single thing, rather than JUST the funny, awkward moments.  Again though, it's more that they took an existing premise and fuxxed it up, so I can understand that.  I'm only on episode 3, and besides a few things (like whimpy white boy on the horde side being the weakest on the team as to send a statement) I'm not seeing why others don't notice they're being a bit unfair to it.  My problems are simple - the artstyle is weak, the design choices are pathetic, the dialogue is horrendous, and the insertion of identity politics is 100% unnecessary.  I think so far, it's pretty watchable.  Considering the show is (or should be) aimed directly at weeb girls, I'm not finding anything too offputting in that regard, but it's making ME roll my eyes to the point where I can see my own brain. 

 

The dispute I mentioned was about the divided comic book industry.

 

That just takes me back to my original statement earlier.  Comic pros are using the fact that "normies", that is, people who either don't:

 

- read comic books normally

- question those in places of authority and call them out on their bullshit

- bother to do any research

- follow their hobbies intently

 

- aren't adept at finding out the truth of the matter and are using them to combat their 'harassers' by labeling them the enemy.  Think of it like this:  If the comic book pros were to get their way, they dominate the industry, even if breifly, before their outrage machine runs dry and they either cannibalize the userbase or the userbase gets bored and runs off to their next fleeting point of contention.  If comicsgaters get what they want, the comic book companies will be forced to respect their users and continuously put out thoughtful, quality material.  The freedom to express oneself means that people will eventually become annoyed with eachother, which is why the comic pro's side of the argument is laughably unstable.


My art:  http://shen-fn-woo.deviantart.com/

http://www.furaffini.../shenfuckinwoo/

 

Advertising the community "The Free Scrubs of Mobius".  Free of everything valuable, including humor.  Let them help you with your personal online conflicts, while ignoring your IRL struggles.  Participating in such honest activities as trying to undermine another community's right to govern their site by stealing their users.  Their banner:  http://orig08.devian...woo-db57bnk.png



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users