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@  Wulfsbane : (21 July 2019 - 10:06 PM)

"Do or Do Not... There is no try."

@  Wulfsbane : (21 July 2019 - 10:06 PM)

Oh no, I totally agree that trying to do something may help a bit. It would show that interest is still there after all these years. Hell, Mighty and Ray made a return.

@  Shadow : (21 July 2019 - 06:33 PM)

Better to try than do nothing.

@  Shadow : (21 July 2019 - 06:33 PM)

He personally may not like them, but if their were some form of collab effort to gather hand written letters, artwork, and products from all over as a yearly effort to get his attention things might move.

@  Wulfsbane : (21 July 2019 - 03:24 PM)

I would imagine the best way would be to go through Aaron, who is a SatAM fan, but there might not be much he can do

@  Wulfsbane : (21 July 2019 - 03:23 PM)

And I'm pretty sure he doesn't like the FF

@  Wulfsbane : (21 July 2019 - 03:23 PM)

The only one that seems friendly to the US fans is Iizuka-san

@  Shadow : (20 July 2019 - 02:32 AM)

It would also mean a great investment to capitalize on a untapped western market of american characters for american fans...that is, if SoJ would ever allow it.

@  Shadow : (20 July 2019 - 01:00 AM)

Because the Archie comics kept the SatAM cast current for so many years their are many fans that would be more than willing to pay good money for seeing them in some official capacity. If only their were a way to find out who to talk to and how to reach them.

@  Shadow : (20 July 2019 - 12:59 AM)

I been thinking. Who is the most key essential person in Sonic Team who is friendly to US fans? Whoever he is would be the key essential person to find and target to bring attention to our fanbase and that their is a market for it.

@  Wulfsbane : (19 July 2019 - 10:52 PM)

Pat does theater work in LA from time to time. She's mostly retired.

@  Shadow : (19 July 2019 - 12:02 PM)

Would a 4K transfer blu ray be possible to produce?

@  Quickster : (19 July 2019 - 12:20 AM)

Unless we were able to somehow contact Pat Allee.

@  furrykef : (18 July 2019 - 09:23 AM)

Possible it was mostly Pat Allee's script. Unfortunately there's no way to know who did what on each script.

@  Shadow : (16 July 2019 - 12:00 PM)

I remember when Ben Hurst came onto this site and we got to send him notes. My favorite episode was Sonic and Sally, since it was my first episode I ever saw. Unfortunately he did not remember working on that one, despite it being his script.

@  chief : (14 July 2019 - 07:41 PM)

Yeah I did get it. Came out nice. Kinda a neat read.

 

I do want to scan it but...I dont want to fold the paper. I might try just taking some high def pictures.

@  David The Lu... : (12 July 2019 - 08:50 PM)

Heck did you get it in the mail. More importantly, have you scanned it yet because things like that need to be scanned and preserved.

@  chief : (29 June 2019 - 12:03 PM)

http://www.sonicsatam.com/sea3on/

@  chief : (29 June 2019 - 11:06 AM)

Also just tossing this out there again...Sea3on has a Discord Chanel that I'm going to be adding some FUS rooms too. So come on and feel free to join up https://discord.gg/qQrqAvG

@  chief : (27 June 2019 - 07:29 PM)

Havent gotten it yet but....Still excited.


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#1 Quickster

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Posted 18 July 2018 - 05:22 PM

Here is the place to talk about the events of the latest issues of the IDW Sonic the Hedgehog comic series.

Spoiler alert: To avoid spoilers, I'd recommend reading all the comics (or at least the latest ones).

Have fun!
Hyped for the Sonic 2019 movie and the Mario 2022 movie!

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#2 SmithyGCN

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Posted 23 October 2018 - 04:49 PM

Well, as someone who has read all of the IDW series so far, I can say I'm not impressed. It suffers from no high stakes in fights - everything is resolved too quickly - and a lack of show don't tell. Also, the lack of the Freedom Fighters is disconcerting. I know Ian wants a fresh start, but it's proving not worth anyone's time or his. I don't want to seem too negative, but I can't help, but notice that this sums up my feelings about modern Sonic in general. I still love the series and current games still I can find enjoyment out of, but this approach to the comic is boring as all get out.



#3 LogiTeeka

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Posted 26 October 2018 - 01:02 AM

The comic might be a bit dull, but it probably just needs some more time to settle in. Plus it still has a more cohesive story than the current games.

#4 RedAuthar

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Posted 26 October 2018 - 09:18 PM

Honestly haven't been reading it for a few months back.

That said I think it has potential. I wanna read it when were further in.


Also rereading the old one, a lot Archie's early issues are bad.

And I've only read like 20 issues of Sonic the Comic.

#5 Wulfsbane

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Posted 26 October 2018 - 09:58 PM

The comic might be a bit dull, but it probably just needs some more time to settle in. Plus it still has a more cohesive story than the current games.

 

The main complain in post-SGW was Ian was world building too quickly.

 

Now he's not doing enough.

 

He needs to find the equilibrium


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#6 LogiTeeka

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Posted 27 October 2018 - 11:10 AM

The main complain in post-SGW was Ian was world building too quickly.

 

Now he's not doing enough.

 

He needs to find the equilibrium

 

Given that he had to quickly fill in the gap left behind by the old continuity's absence, it's easy to see why the Archie reboot's pacing felt a bit quick. In comparison, the IDW series is a bit slower because there's not a whole lot of newer material to reestablish - it's only a slightly looser adaption of the game continuity based on a recent title with no other elements involved as of yet.

 

Though had the Archie comics continued, I can't help but wonder how they would've handled "Forces". I imagine it would've likely started out as a quick, non-canon tie-in comic before gradually integrating itself into the main continuity. Though how that would develop would've depended on what Ian had planned for it.

 

But as a headcanon, I kinda like to view the IDW series as a soft-reboot continuation of the Archie continuity; taking place sometime later on after Eggman's incursion either killed off or driven apart all the absent characters. Might be a bit depressing in concept, but I'm down with whatever it takes to keep the series going in my mind.



#7 SmithyGCN

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Posted 29 October 2018 - 03:09 PM

I don't know about that. Ian has started weaponizing his fandom against critics according to his tweets and even came out and said that he blatantly made Sally and Nicole gay even though he previously said that he made a slight implication toward it. I don't hate gay people, but making a couple canonically straight characters gay just to push some sordid agenda is really bad in my eyes. The guy even said he loves the Freedom Fighters and Sally even though he recently stated he prefers Amy and the game characters to them. The guy has lied on several occassions and I just don't trust him or his works any more. He's a flipping SJW and I will not support his work. Say what you want to about Archie - they had problems sure - but they at least they didn't try to make characters what they weren't... most of the time (remembers the infamous slap).



#8 RedAuthar

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Posted 29 October 2018 - 06:41 PM

Say what you want to about Archie - they had problems sure - but they at least they didn't try to make characters what they weren't

Debatable.  Since Archie did go a different direction than SatAM you could argue they did change who the characters were.  In fact, early Archie is more like AoStH rather than SatAM so even in their own universe they changed characters from comical to series and back again.  They also adjusted many of the SEGA Sonic characters to fit more in their created world.  

 

That was actually the beauty of it, that they DID adjust characters as needed.  

 

 

... most of the time (remembers the infamous slap).

Meh.

 

I've said it before I'll say it again.  The hate against the slap is unjust.  It's the perfect example on why Sally haters think she's a Mary sue.  Sally is still in mourning over the love of her life dying a year ago, only to have him suddenly appear back with no explanation, only to drop back into a conflict with Eggman where Sonic nearly dies twice and she's told she is not allowed to do anything about it, only to have him reject her when she proposes. 

 

I don't think the slap was unjust or out of character.  I believe the whole event was another "things are different" moment.  Antoine was dark and series (and at the time of writing not secretly Patch), Tails was a bit more mature and his own person, Knuckles was no longer on Angel Island or as powerful as before, Mina had a Boyfriend and was much more confident than before.  Sally was in a dark place.  I believe it belittles her character more to say she's not allowed to make the mistake or have an emotional break down.  

 

But that's just my opinion. 

 

 

I don't hate gay people, but making a couple canonically straight characters gay just to push some sordid agenda is really bad in my eyes. 

Unfortunately welcome to the world of politically correct comics.  It no longer matters about quality or telling a good story, it's all politics.  

 

Though to be fair in the reboot universe Sally wasn't in a relationship with Sonic so they didn't completely just rewrite her.  

 

But in all seriousness I think it's better to introduce new characters to fill the politically correct quotas and make them likable rather than just re-brand an existing character to fill the quota.  I'm not saying it's perfect but I think it spawns less controversy.  

 

 

 

Given that he had to quickly fill in the gap left behind by the old continuity's absence, it's easy to see why the Archie reboot's pacing felt a bit quick. In comparison, the IDW series is a bit slower because there's not a whole lot of newer material to reestablish - it's only a slightly looser adaption of the game continuity based on a recent title with no other elements involved as of yet.

 

It also has a more limited resources to work with.  They said in multiple interviews they are only allowed so much free room with IDW thus far.  Pending on how well the comic fares we may see more world building and characters appear.  Right now they don't want to put the effort in to something they may not be allowed to use.



#9 LogiTeeka

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Posted 29 October 2018 - 06:47 PM

I would respectively disagree. I didn’t mind the change in Sally’s sexual orientation since the Sally of the Archie reboot was intended to be an entirely different incarnation of the character compared to her earlier depictions. She was no longer allowed to be romantically involved with Sonic and placing her with any other male character would’ve only made the fandom upset (to say the least); giving her a different orientation was a more effective way of emphasizing that things weren’t the same as they were before.

That and it seems kinda degrading to her character if one of her most defining characteristics was her strait relationship with Sonic. Never mind the fact that she’s a fastidious, analytical leader who isn’t concerned about her royal position and has a tendency to be stubborn and overly critical, even towards herself. That to me is what defines Sally as a character.

Plus, this wouldn’t be the only time a character’s orientation was changed in the Sonic franchise. I recall Nigel Kitching stated that Tails was implied to be gay in Fleetway’s StC, despite him having female love interests in other iterations.

#10 Shadow

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Posted 29 October 2018 - 07:15 PM

I suppose making her gay would be one way to follow Sega's mandate of keeping Sonic single...



#11 ShenFNWoo

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Posted 29 October 2018 - 08:59 PM

I don't know about that. Ian has started weaponizing his fandom against critics according to his tweets and even came out and said that he blatantly made Sally and Nicole gay even though he previously said that he made a slight implication toward it. I don't hate gay people, but making a couple canonically straight characters gay just to push some sordid agenda is really bad in my eyes. The guy even said he loves the Freedom Fighters and Sally even though he recently stated he prefers Amy and the game characters to them. The guy has lied on several occassions and I just don't trust him or his works any more. He's a flipping SJW and I will not support his work. Say what you want to about Archie - they had problems sure - but they at least they didn't try to make characters what they weren't... most of the time (remembers the infamous slap).

 

Looks like you and me are going to get along just fine.  With what you said in mind, it does very damn well seem like Ian made her that way simply to appease a specific crowd.  If you take into consideration the shitstorms he's been conjuring up on his twitter feed, where you can't even be on the opposing side of the political spectrum and have peaceful discourse, then it makes it all too clear what his intentions were. 

 

Also, last time I checked, Nicole was a hologram.  She's embodied now (after GW)?  JUST to get into a relationship with her would-be-sister (if created by her mom) / daughter (if she created her herself)?  What kind of nonsense standards are being taught here?  Remaking her into a completely different character actually makes things a bit harder to follow, like.....  what the hell was she even doing before what's happening currently?

 

Unfortunately welcome to the world of politically correct comics.  It no longer matters about quality or telling a good story, it's all politics.

  

It doesn't NEED to be that way.  We tell them with our wallets whether the people throwing fits about this sort of thing but aren't actually buying the comics are the people they should be listening to.

 

 

But in all seriousness I think it's better to introduce new characters to fill the politically correct quotas and make them likable rather than just re-brand an existing character to fill the quota.  I'm not saying it's perfect but I think it spawns less controversy.

 

To fill the quota?  Who said there needed to BE a quota?  Japan is going to really need to relocate their localization departments OUT of Commiefornia so that they'll be properly informed about what the people want in the rest of America, where the majority aren't throwing hissy fits over inconsequential things. 

 

Writers should make things the way they are to better compliment the story, NEVER as something contrived and formulaic.


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#12 LogiTeeka

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 01:00 AM

Also, last time I checked, Nicole was a hologram.  She's embodied now (after GW)?  JUST to get into a relationship with her would-be-sister (if created by her mom) / daughter (if she created her herself)?  What kind of nonsense standards are being taught here?  Remaking her into a completely different character actually makes things a bit harder to follow, like.....  what the hell was she even doing before what's happening currently?

 

In a world where a fox and an alien plant are allowed to fall in love and a coyote and a cyborg rabbit can get married and have children, an intimate relationship with a computer program simulating the same gender seems kinda tame in concept.

 

Also, if Nicole is considered a "sibling" to Sally because she grew up with her, wouldn't the same logic apply to Sonic since he also was a childhood friend of hers? Yet despite that, people don't have a problem with shipping them together.



#13 ShenFNWoo

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 05:45 AM

In a world where a fox and an alien plant are allowed to fall in love and a coyote and a cyborg rabbit can get married and have children, an intimate relationship with a computer program simulating the same gender seems kinda tame in concept.

 

 

That's a rather oversimplified look at it, attempting to pass it off as normal based around the implausibility or absurdity of other things going on in the universe. Unfortunately if you look at it a bit further, it comes off as bit more disturbing - where as the other two examples you provided are basically two sentient creatures that came together of their own volition, you have a computer construct that JUST so happens to have fallen in love with it's creator/sibling..... in a lesbian relationship.... in a kids comic.  At the very least, in the case of creation, it's Sally's sick idea of flattering herself, and at most it's an advanced form of masturbation.  In the case of being "related", it's partially that, AND incest.  Full stop, bruh.  There's no justifying that.
 

 

Also, if Nicole is considered a "sibling" to Sally because she grew up with her, wouldn't the same logic apply to Sonic since he also was a childhood friend of hers? Yet despite that, people don't have a problem with shipping them together.

 

 

You read me wrong.  She'd be considered a sibling because Nicole may have been created for Sally by her mother/parents.  That would make Nicole another 'daughter' to them, which would make her Sally's sister.  Has nothing to do with them "growing up together".


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#14 Wulfsbane

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 07:59 AM

I would respectively disagree. I didn’t mind the change in Sally’s sexual orientation since the Sally of the Archie reboot was intended to be an entirely different incarnation of the character compared to her earlier depictions. She was no longer allowed to be romantically involved with Sonic and placing her with any other male character would’ve only made the fandom upset (to say the least); giving her a different orientation was a more effective way of emphasizing that things weren’t the same as they were before.

That and it seems kinda degrading to her character if one of her most defining characteristics was her strait relationship with Sonic. Never mind the fact that she’s a fastidious, analytical leader who isn’t concerned about her royal position and has a tendency to be stubborn and overly critical, even towards herself. That to me is what defines Sally as a character.

Plus, this wouldn’t be the only time a character’s orientation was changed in the Sonic franchise. I recall Nigel Kitching stated that Tails was implied to be gay in Fleetway’s StC, despite him having female love interests in other iterations.

 

I'm going to have to argue that the just about everything between Sally's personality and characteristics are the same between pre-SGW & post-SGW so why change that aspect other than the notion that they can't be together anymore. SEGA allows Sonic & Amy to go on the occasional date so why not let that apply to Sally as well? I get the fans would be upset with her being with anyone else (Khan was a big one apparently but quite a bit had to do with his earlier incarnation) but if they explain the situation I do think a lot of fans would be upset. Yeah you're gonna have that small section that's upset but you can't please everyone.

 

A big thing I saw was that the whole Sally x NICOLE drew more backlash from fans than probably Ian anticipated. A lot of fans, including the more LGBT friendly fans, seemed to not like it, including some of his staunchest defenders. Considering that they were close as sisters for the past near 25 years they've been around and they basically changed their dynamic for what it felt like was because Sally and Sonic can't be together just seems kinda wack. As I said earlier about post-SGW: I think Ian tried doing too much at once and threw a bunch of stuff at the wall to see what stick. Alleah Baker even mentioned in a comment chain on the IDW Sonic group on Facebook that if the Freedom Fighters were to be a part of IDW, Ian probably wouldn't do Sally x NICOLE again due to the fan backlash.

 

Logi, I do agree with you that some fans seemed to focus more on her relationship with Sonic than her leadership qualities, I always viewed the relationship as a more of supplemental factor. Ian could have just focused on that post-SGW and kept her single and I doubt anyone would have complained much. And Ian did try to do that with her leadership qualities but I felt like Ian made her too overbearing and made her basically have the final say on a lot of things that made the others drop their points without much argument. I think Ian's an Okay writer but I felt he really dropped the ball on in multiple places post-SGW.

 

And I agree with Red, if you have to have a character to fill a PC quota, just use a newer character instead of changing a pre-existing one. They seemed to have that idea with Clove in post-SGW as Baker mentioned in the same comment chain as the one I mentioned earlier. Changing an established character almost always never goes well and becomes very controversial (HYDRA Captain America anyone?)


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“Some say that he is the only man in history to buy a DFS sofa when there wasn’t a sale on, and that his favourite boxing venue is Munich airport. All we know is he’s called the Stig.”

 

“Some say that if you hold him in the wrong way he doesn’t work properly, and that just very recently he developed an irrational hatred of Rubens Barrichello. All we know is he’s called the Stig.”

 

Bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive. -Colossians 3:13


#15 LogiTeeka

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 10:56 AM

That's a rather oversimplified look at it, attempting to pass it off as normal based around the implausibility or absurdity of other things going on in the universe. Unfortunately if you look at it a bit further, it comes off as bit more disturbing - where as the other two examples you provided are basically two sentient creatures that came together of their own volition, you have a computer construct that JUST so happens to have fallen in love with it's creator/sibling..... in a lesbian relationship.... in a kids comic.  At the very least, in the case of creation, it's Sally's sick idea of flattering herself, and at most it's an advanced form of masturbation.  In the case of being "related", it's partially that, AND incest.  Full stop, bruh.  There's no justifying that.

 

You read me wrong.  She'd be considered a sibling because Nicole may have been created for Sally by her mother/parents.  That would make Nicole another 'daughter' to them, which would make her Sally's sister.  Has nothing to do with them "growing up together".

 

But Nicole is sentient. That's the whole point of her Lynx avatar. In the Reboot continuity, she started out as a seemingly soulless A.I. but gradually developed as a fully conscious being as more of the world around her was unveiled; this included her feelings towards Sally. She wasn't specifically programmed to fall in love with her, she evolved to that level on her own accord.

 

Also, Nicole wasn't created by Sally. She was created by Dr. Ellidy to replicate his deceased daughter's personality. When the results didn't produce the outcome he was striving to achieve, he gave up his pursuit and gave her to Sally as a departing gift, not knowing that the A.I. he built would become a fully conscious being later down the line.



#16 ShenFNWoo

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 12:56 PM

So basically not even the same character, just the husk of what used to be.  Yeah, everything post reboot is trash. 


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#17 LogiTeeka

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 01:50 PM

So basically not even the same character, just the husk of what used to be.  Yeah, everything post reboot is trash. 

 

How exactly? All the original continuity had for her backstory was that she hailed from the future, and that hardly attributed anything to her character or the series as a whole.

 

The Reboot obviously couldn't go with that origin, so Ian and Aleah went with a different origin story; one that was loosely inspired by Hurst's unused plans for the canceled 3rd season of SatAM. And I thought it was a much better result.



#18 ShenFNWoo

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 02:57 PM

How exactly? All the original continuity had for her backstory was that she hailed from the future, and that hardly attributed anything to her character or the series as a whole.

 

 

Sounds like the crapload of writers just said screw it and possibly retconned that in.  I agree, that sounds stupid.

 

The Reboot obviously couldn't go with that origin, so Ian and Aleah went with a different origin story; one that was loosely inspired by Hurst's unused plans for the canceled 3rd season of SatAM. And I thought it was a much better result.

 

 

No offense or insult intended, but I'm sure you did think it was better.  I've not heard you once say anything bad about game oriented Sonic anything so far.  I did give it a chance, but the more I hear about post reboot archie sonic, the more I hate it. 


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#19 LogiTeeka

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 05:15 PM

Sounds like the crapload of writers just said screw it and possibly retconned that in.  I agree, that sounds stupid.

 

Well, that origin story can be attributed to writer Ken Penders. A lot of the stuff he added to the comic lore was really superfluous (Warlord Kodos is my personal pick for the most pointless character in the entire comics).

 

I mean, the idea of Nicole hailing from the future could've been an interesting concept, but hardly anything ever came of it. It didn't flesh out her character and it didn't lead to anything potentially happening as a result. Silver the Hedgehog, a similar character by comparison, was a far more effective character in that regard - he, at least, bothered to make his time-traveling look like a big deal.

 

 

No offense or insult intended, but I'm sure you did think it was better.  I've not heard you once say anything bad about game oriented Sonic anything so far.  I did give it a chance, but the more I hear about post reboot archie sonic, the more I hate it. 

 

I'll admit that might partially stem from my personal experience since I grew up playing the games (primarily the Dreamcast/Gamecube/GBA-era). Those games sorta formed my basis for how I perceive the franchise. But that doesn't mean I approve of everything from the games - I may dislike the 2005 "Shadow the Hedgehog" game and "Sonic 06" just as much as the next guy, but the most of the recent titles, in particular, have been among my least favorite titles. "Colors" was overrated, "Generations" was fun but really shallow, "Lost World" felt bland and soulless, and "Forces" was just plain lackluster. So I don't like everything related to the games.

 

I'm also not opposed to different interpretations of the franchise. The first Sonic show I got into was "Sonic X" back when I was young, but I was also exposed to shows like SatAM and "Underground". They were totally different compared to the games, but I enjoyed them for what they were regardless. Heck, back then, I thought they were part of the same continuity. But having since grown wiser, I still appreciate them because of how distinct and unique they are (in spite of their flaws).

 

But with that being said, my liking of Nicole's new backstory in the reboot doesn't have anything to do with the games. I like it not only for its simplicity compared to her original comic origin, but also because it fleshes out her character and provides the readers a reason to care for her as if she were a living being. Being treated as nothing more than a soulless object is a harsh experience for a fully conscientious being go through, so it's nice to see Nicole be happy with friends and allies that treat her as an equal and why it's tragic to see her own creator/father treat her like she was a mistake.



#20 RedAuthar

RedAuthar

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Posted 30 October 2018 - 05:57 PM

To fill the quota?  Who said there needed to BE a quota?  

The marketing/advertisement companies.  You want money for your comic?  Well you gotta meet the demands of your sponsors and advertisers.  Just like a TV network, a comic has to make changes to broaden it's consumer market, and unfortunately that usually means meet a quota.  

 

I don't agree with the system but it's been around since like the 60s.  You're not going to change it now, even if you don't buy it. 

 

Besides there's a lot of comic fans out there praising things like adding in what are considered "unrepresented" groups in comics.

 

So basically not even the same character, just the husk of what used to be.  Yeah, everything post reboot is trash. 

Or just not your taste.  

 

Technically even in SatAM doesn't have a good story for Nicole because they never established her backstory.  Heck she only starts having Personality after the one episode Sonic has her, and after that they don't go much further.  I'd say she was a husk and they filled her in with something.  You may not like that something and something isn't always better than nothing, but I would hardly say trash.  




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